Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 00:01 EST From: ROBERT_BROCKMAN Subject: Answers to "Internal grayscale on SE/30?" query I recently posted a question to the net about the Micron card for the SE/30 that allows the internal monitor to display grayscale. I received a slew of requests from folks wanting to hear what I learned, so what follows is the main body text from the three messages I received. > The condensed version is that the card is great, > but a little tricky to install. Personally, while I was collecting this data I decided my money was better spent on Think Pascal 4.0 and QUED/M, so it doesn't look like I'll be buying anything in the way of hardware any time soon, but a big THANK YOU to those that helped me out. Robert Brockman, CDBSDUC@IUP.BITNET or CDBSDUC@GROVE.IUP.EDU + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + I have the Micron system on my SE/30. I have had no problems at all, although installing the thing was a little nerve racking. I does take a little longer for startup due to the increased power requirements. There is a card in the slot that must be powered before the screen can be started. It takes ~2 seconds more for the screen to appear than for the '30 without the card. That's all. From: NetMail%"EDW@cup.portal.com" 26-JUL-1992 22:07:21.00 Ed Wright + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + I have been using a Micron Colour 30 with the GrayScale 30 internal adapter in my SE/30 for the last 6 months. It actually works as expected. The only problem I have found is the way Micron has chosen to solve a problem with stupid programs. Some programs start by checking the screen size and if it's 512 * 342 the program decides it must be 1 bit black/white; the programs does not check to see if the screen is grayscale. Micron chose set the screen size to 512 * 341 to force these programs to check the screen more closely. This unfortunately gives a few other problems, with some programs. I have had programs complaining that they could not run, because the program needed at least a 512 * 342 screen. Others decide that if the screen isn't 512 * 342 it must at least be 512 * 384 (Apple 12" colour) and start up with a dialog, where all the buttons have been placed outside the screen; most of these only need an OK, that can be reached by pressing the return button, but I have seen a few where I had to press the reset button to get my machine back. All of these problems are results of sloppy programming of the programs, I just wish Micron had found a way that allowed me to open a HyperCard stack and use it directly, without first having to resize and move the stack window. This problem only turns up with a few badly programmed programs - most programs use the 9" screen without problems. If you connect an external monitor, or use Virtual Video to emulate a bigger screen, this problem disappears. I find the combination of the Micron video card and grayscale adapter to be very good. The video is speeded, compared with the original video, and some programs, including the operating system, actually sometimes think that the machine is a Macintosh IIx. You get a lot for the price, and your machine will suddenly be able to run a lot of programs, that it couldn't before. It is also the most portable grayscale Macintosh. Disclaimer: I have no connection with Micron, except for being a satisfied customer. From: NetMail%"holst@diku.dk" 27-JUL-1992 03:54:40.24 Bo Holst-Christensen holst@diku.dk dikubhc1@uts.uni-c.dk FAX: +45 53 640 321 + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + I have purchased the Micron Xceed card and grey-scale adaptor. Yes, it does work, but it's a real bummer to fit in. I agree it's a great concept. However, I must warn you about a few things first. Since the adaptor runs off the Xceed card, you can only run ONE monitor in greysacle or colour at any one time. That means you only get greyscale on the 9" inch screen when there is no external monitor running. If you have an external monitor then your internal screen DOES work, but only in normal (1-bit) B&W mode. I think it"s still worth buying, especially if you're tight of cash and can onlyafford the card for now; you still get an enhanced SE/30 while you save up for a monitor. What's more, if you buy a decent monitor you can use it for your next Mac (although I think the SE/30 is the best ever madefor personal use). You still then have a better than normal SE/30 which you can sell (yuk) or keep for the rest of your days in greyscale. Let me tell you a bit about the Xceed card. It is FAST, especially since it's a PDS not a NuBus. I play the game Hellcats over the Pacific a lot and the graphics on that are unreal, especially in colour. In the lab we have IIcx's. They, of course, run at the same clock speed as the SE/30 and they have Apple 13" RGBs. We also have a Quadra 700. I've played Hellcats on all three types of machine and I can say that the SE/30 (with Xceed card and an excellent Eizo T240i 14" Trinitron monitor) renders the Hellcats' graphics at the same speed as the Quadra (with cache off). A note of caution about the fitting of the grey scale adaptor- it's difficult to do this yourself. You need at least one person helping if you (like me) want to be really gentle with the motherboard. The adaptor replaces the Apple CRT driver and connects with the motherboard, the Xceed card and the internal video board, all using one 5 pronged just-long-enough-if-it breathes-in cable. I was so relieved to hear that satisfying startup tone when I'd fitted in the adaptor. Yes I got greyscale, but no it wasn't quite right. There was a lot of ghosting of the image and things were periodically in and out of focus. For one sleepless night I thought I'd damaged the CRT. My mind was put at rest the next day when I replace Apple's CRT driver- everything was okay. A (transatlantic) phonecall to the helpfull guys at Micron (maybe only helpful because my English accent delighted them so) revealed that there are tuning screw (s) on the adaptor that need to be adjusted to make the card run properly. They recommend that the adaptor is fitted by an authorisd dealer, not necessarily because of invalidating warranties, but because of the technical knowledge required to fit the thing in. Personally I don't like the thought of twiddling with controls with the SE/30 cover open and the machine switched on. You'd also need a helper or a mirror at least. So at the moment I've got an unused adaptor. Since I've bought the Eizo monitor (much better monitor than the Apple 13") anyway, I'm not losing the benefits of the greyscale adaptor. When I've saved enough to pay for the labour costs of getting the card fitted I will do so. As I'm sure you've noticed I can strongly recommend the Eizo T240i monitor. I'm so happy with it that I could easily tell you what's so good about it, but I won't unless you want to hear and ask me for the info. (I'm sorry about the length of this message as it is). To sum up- go for the Micron products (you get 5 years' warranty and some nifty software too), but get someone to fit the adaptor (the Xceed card is a cinch) unless you're a technical expert. You don't get internal greyscale when thereUs another monitor attached. The SE/30 is a great machine and you get 2 monitors to run. Excellent with sys7- use one for the finder and the other for apps. Also with Daystar digital's new range of SE/30 accelerators which go straight into the motherboard, leaving the PDS free, your SE/30 is as good as any "new" mac and will be for many years to come. I suppose I should say that I have no connection with Apple, Micron, Eizo, Graphic Simulations or Daystar Digital. I'm just a Molecular Biology student who saves up most of his stipend for his Mac addiction. Feel free to ask further questions. I hope I haven't taken up too much time and that I have been of some help. From: NetMail%"JM144@MOLECULAR-BIOLOGY-1.BIOLOGY.CAMBRIDGE.AC.UK" 27-JUL-1992 08:41:40.03 Joe Makkerh Wellcome/CRC Institute University of Cambridge Tennis Court Road Cambridge UK FAX: + 44 223334089 Voice: + 44 223334109