7-Mar-96 20:25:42-GMT,1715;000000000001 Received: (from fdc@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA03690; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 15:25:38 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 96 15:25:37 EST From: Frank da Cruz To: "David L. Gudewicz 847.937.8227" Subject: Re: Kermit 95 1.1.4 patch is available In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 07 Mar 1996 13:35:00 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: > BTW, I'm a DECUS LUG Chairman here in Chicagoland. What ever happened to > the issue between Kermit and DECUS, to put it briefly. > Nothing much. I had some discussions with Bill Mayhew, he was supportive, he pulled the sensitive stuff off CompuServe -- to the extent that he could, but that was about it. There was some talk about some kind of "profit" sharing agreement between Columbia and the DECUS Library, but I can't locate the correspondence on that just now, and anyway it would not make much sense. I think the right thing is for DECUS to not distribute C-Kermit for VMS or UNIX, etc, or the IBM version of MS-DOS Kermit (and of course, not Kermit 95) -- leave all that to us. But that it should feel free to distribute the other older DEC-specific versions for which there are occasional requests to have on native media -- VT180, Rainbow, PDP-11, Pro 3xx, etc -- because we can't provide these versions on native media (RX01, RX50, RK05, etc). (We used to distribute the VT180 and Rainbow versions until our last VT180 and Rainbows gave up the ghost.) If DECUS wanted to sell Kermit software WITH the books, we could work out something by which both sides could profit. If you have any other ideas, I'd be glad to hear them. - Frank 15-Mar-96 17:09:54-GMT,3543;000000000001 Received: from spcvxa.spc.edu (spcvxa.spc.edu [192.107.46.27]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA13365 for ; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 12:09:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from spcvxa.spc.edu by spcvxa.spc.edu (PMDF V5.0-4 #14038) id <01I2D7OQFY348WWM9F@spcvxa.spc.edu> for fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 12:09:32 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 12:09:32 -0500 (EST) From: "Terry Kennedy, Operations Mgr" Subject: Re: ["Ronald L. Fox" : Errors in your Kermit 95 descriptions - LAT is not the same as DECnet] To: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Message-id: <01I2D7OQGR0Y8WWM9F@spcvxa.spc.edu> Organization: St. Peter's College, US X-VMS-To: IN%"fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu" X-VMS-Cc: TERRY MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Hi Terry. Is he right? If so, of course I'll do as he says. Sort of. DEC seems to go out of their way to confuse things. Aside from the TCP/IP protocols, DEC has 3 protocols for virtual terminal sessions. The first was IMP-11 (available in VMS as SET HOST/OLD). The second was CTERM (SET HOST). Both of these protocols are DECnet protocols (you need DECnet installed and configured to run them). Later, DEC came out with LAT, a low-overhead protocol. LAT doesn't require DECnet to run, except that in some DEC operating systems, DECnet is a prerequisite for LAT (for example, RSTS/E). However, that's just a licensing issue. Of these protocols, IMP-11 and CTERM were host-to-host protocols and LAT was a server-to-host protocol. This has been fuzzed up a bit, as there was a terminal server product (based on the PDP-11/24) that did CTERM, and recent versions of VMS can originate (as well as receive) LAT sessions. When DEC came out with the product now known as Pathworks (formerly DECnet-DOS, DEC services for PCs, LANworks, and some other names) they included CTERM and LAT client capabilities, so if you had LAT or CTERM on your PC, you had it because you had DECnet-DOS (PATHWORKS). A number of companies came out with semi-functional LAT implementations that didn't require the 200KB memory resident blob that was the rest of DECnet-DOS. Meridian was one of those, Datability (now Penril) was another. In fact, Datability had a whole stack similar to Pathworks (but which was as flakey as the rest of everything Datability ever made). So it was possible to do LAT without having DECnet-DOS (PATHWORKS) loaded, as long as you didn't mind using an API that was completely different from the PATHWORKS one (or, in the case of the Meridian stack, one that claimed to be the same but worked differently which you needed to code explicit ex- ceptions for). Since then, DEC appointed Meridian the official manager of licensing for DEC's LAT code. However, you can still license just the protocol spec, or you can get a complete implementation, so there are still some incompatible API's. In the case of MS-DOS Kermit, since Joe and I put in the LAT/CTERM support, the correct statement is "works with PATHWORKS LAT/CTERM or packages which have an identical API". If K95 includes its own LAT software the we should say "comes with LAT software (licenses from )". Otherwise we should state what API we use. If that API is the PATHWORKS one, then it's reason- able to say "DECnet LAT" (meaning DECnet-DOS's LAT) though a somewhat archaic term these days. Does this help? T. [Feel free to forward to the original poster if you like] 19-Mar-96 0:08:15-GMT,2499;000000000001 Received: (from fdc@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA03429; Mon, 18 Mar 1996 19:07:31 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 19:07:31 -0500 (EST) From: Frank da Cruz Message-Id: <199603190007.TAA03429@watsun.cc.columbia.edu> To: John Santos Subject: Re: PDP-11 Kermit Newsgroups: comp.os.rsts In-Reply-To: <4ikaij$mha@caesar.ultra.net> Organization: Columbia University cc: Billy Youdelman , Jeffrey Altman , Terry Kennedy In article <4ikaij$mha@caesar.ultra.net> you write: : In article <4iii6a$jm8$1@mhadg.production.compuserve.com>, : Kelvin Smith <74654.3313@CompuServe.COM> wrote: : >One other thing I'd like to see in a new RSTS Kermit: No creation of : >RMS attributes on an uploaded file unless the file is truly an RMS file : >coming from another system. It's a nuisance to have to strip off : >the attributes before certain programs will work properly (like using : >PIP to concatenate multiple files). : : Sounds like a good idea. This might require some sort of file : transfer option (defaulting to current behaviour), so as not to break : existing applications, but it should be easy to put the necessary : commands in the KERMIT.INI file. I'll put it on my list... : Hi John. Since it looks like you're going ahead with this, I figured I'd put in my 2 cents. First let's settle on a file naming convention. It's probably easiest to keep the same filenames, but replace "K11" with something else that doesn't conflict with any names that we have already -- perhaps just something dumb like "KRS". Second, I do hope you and Billy can get together on merging sources -- then only RSX and IAS are left out in the cold, and this might be sufficient incentive for somebody somewhere to merge that one in too. (Terry, maybe you want to post this on DECUSserve?) Third, as you may know, we gave up on trying to stuff complex file attributes into A packets, and we settled on a different approach, called "labeled file transfer", for transferring complex file objects like RMS indexed files, etc. This has been implemented in C-Kermit for VMS and in C-Kermit for OS/2. The trick would be to make Kermit-11 have a labeled mode just like VMS C-Kermit, and for the two to be able to interoperate. Any thoughts on this, Terry? If you're interested in pursuing this, I will dig up the spec and send it to you. - Frank 19-Mar-96 20:29:29-GMT,1610;000000000001 Received: from mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu (mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.35.143]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA06678 for ; Tue, 19 Mar 1996 15:29:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.40.129]) by mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA08105 for ; Tue, 19 Mar 1996 15:29:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU by CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R1) with BSMTP id 9299; Tue, 19 Mar 96 15:29:29 EDT X-Delivery-Notice: SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender. Received: from UCBEH.SAN.UC.EDU (SMTPUSER@UCBEH) by CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (Mailer R2.07) with BSMTP id 9859; Tue, 19 Mar 96 15:29:28 EDT Received: from UCBEH.SAN.UC.EDU by UCBEH.SAN.UC.EDU (PMDF V5.0-6 #7238) id <01I2IZVSZ90W8X84P8@UCBEH.SAN.UC.EDU>; Tue, 19 Mar 1996 15:26:29 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 15:22:46 -0500 (EST) From: James.Carlson%UC.Edu@CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU Subject: software for a PDP 11/73 To: kermit@columbia.edu Cc: James.Carlson@UC.Edu Message-id: <01I2J081586K8X84P8@UCBEH.SAN.UC.EDU> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I work at the University of Cincinnati in the Chemistry department. I have a DEC PDP11/73 microcomputer which is being used for data collection. I want to transfer the data off of the PDP to a PC. Do you have a copy of Kermit available for my system? The system is a PDP 11/73 running RSX-11M-PLUS V3.0 BL24D. I have a TK50 tape drive. cost? James Carlson carlsoje@ucbeh.san.uc.edu 19-Mar-96 20:30:32-GMT,2353;000000000011 Received: from remus.ultranet.com (remus.ultranet.com [199.232.56.3]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA06903 for ; Tue, 19 Mar 1996 15:30:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from vandal.ultranet.com (vandal.ultranet.com [146.115.249.148]) by remus.ultranet.com (8.7.4/dae0.6) with SMTP id PAA21102; Tue, 19 Mar 1996 15:28:40 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 15:28:40 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199603192028.PAA21102@remus.ultranet.com> X-Sender: jasantos@mail.ultranet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Frank da Cruz , John Santos From: John Santos Subject: Re: PDP-11 Kermit Cc: Billy Youdelman , Jeffrey Altman , Terry Kennedy At 07:07 PM 3/18/96 -0500, Frank da Cruz wrote: >First let's settle on a file naming convention. It's probably easiest to >keep the same filenames, but replace "K11" with something else that doesn't >conflict with any names that we have already -- perhaps just something dumb >like "KRS". > >Second, I do hope you and Billy can get together on merging sources -- then >only RSX and IAS are left out in the cold, and this might be sufficient >incentive for somebody somewhere to merge that one in too. (Terry, maybe you >want to post this on DECUSserve?) If we can get the sources merged, the common files would be "KRT..."; I think it would be cleaner if the RSTS-only files were KRT, too. If it turns out to be too hard to maintain common sources or to merge my changes, then I'll go with KRS. >Third, as you may know, we gave up on trying to stuff complex file attributes >into A packets, and we settled on a different approach, called "labeled file >transfer", for transferring complex file objects like RMS indexed files, etc. >This has been implemented in C-Kermit for VMS and in C-Kermit for OS/2. > >The trick would be to make Kermit-11 have a labeled mode just like VMS >C-Kermit, and for the two to be able to interoperate. Any thoughts on this, >Terry? > >If you're interested in pursuing this, I will dig up the spec and send it >to you. > Yes, I think that would be the way to go. Please send me the spec. - John John Santos 19-Mar-96 22:07:43-GMT,10249;000000000001 Received: (from fdc@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA19030; Tue, 19 Mar 1996 17:07:04 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 19 Mar 96 17:07:04 EST From: Frank da Cruz To: John Santos Subject: Re: PDP-11 Kermit In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 19 Mar 1996 15:28:40 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: > Please send me the spec. > Here it is -- any questions, send them to me, Terry, and Billy; hopefully we can resolve anything that needs resolving in the direction of interoperability among all RMS and/or FILES-11 systems. ---- Kermit programs presently differentiate between text and binary files via the SET FILE TYPE command. When the file type is TEXT, the Kermit program that is sending the file converts the file's record format and character set from its local form to a standard form, and the receiving Kermit program converts from the standard form into its own local record format and character set. When the file type is BINARY, the file is sent as-is, byte for byte. These two ways of handling files are sufficient in many cases, but fall short when one or both computers has a complex file system, such as the Macintosh or DEC operating systems like VAX/VMS. The Kermit protocol includes a mechanism for transmitting a file's attributes in a generic way, but these attributes are of little use when the file is being received by a computer with a simple file system, such as UNIX or MS-DOS, that can't do anything with them. And they are not sufficient to convey every conceivable bit of information about about every kind of file on every kind of computer. To allow a complicated file to be transferred, a new file type is proposed: SET FILE TYPE LABELED Notice the spelling of "LABELED" (only one L between the E's). When this setting is in effect, the sending Kermit sends not only the file's data, but also system-dependent structural information about the file. Since this information can be quite lengthy, it is sent as if it were file data, in data packets preceding the actual file data, rather than in attribute packets. All of this information is sent in binary mode (no conversions). The receiver of the file can elect whether to act upon the label information, or simply store it. Kermit programs for simple file systems need no changes, and can still act as repositories for labeled files, to be sent back later to the system of origin. On the other hand, labeled file transfers between like systems (e.g. two VAX/VMS computers) will result in the reception of a file with all the correct characteristics. There are two possible modes of operation. The first (and safer) mode requires human intervention on a per-file basis, but an automatic mode is also possible. DEFINITIONS A "bare" file is a file stored on disk that does NOT contain, as part of its contents, Kermit-constructed label information. A "labeled" file is a file stored on disk whose contents include Kermit-constructed label information. FORMAT OF A LABELED FILE This description applies to a labeled file as stored on disk and to a bare file that has label information added to it by a sending Kermit. BANNER The literal text string "KERMIT LABELED FILE:", just the twenty characters within the quotes including the trailing colon, in 7-bit ASCII. ASCII is used even on non-ASCII systems (like IBM mainframes with EBCDIC). IDLEN A 2-byte ASCII decimal numeric length field, with leading zeros if necessary, for example "02". SYSID The system ID, one of the codes listed on pp.275-278 of the Kermit book. This is a string of 1 to 99 ASCII characters (but typically 1-3 characters), for example "D7" for (Open)VMS. The length of the SYSID field is given by the preceding field (IDLEN): D7 = VMS D8 = RSX-11 D9 = IAS DA = RSTS/E DB = RT-11 or TSX+ DC = P/OS LBLEN A 2-byte ASCII numeric length field, with leading zeros if necessary, for example "00", "02", "09", "99". LABEL A label field, 1 to 99 ASCII characters. The length is given by the preceding length field (LBLEN). The LABEL field contains the name of the file descriptor data that follows. VALEN An 8-byte ASCII numeric length field, with leading zeros if necessary, for example "00000512". Zero ("00000000") is a permissible length for a value. VALUE The value associated with the label, 0 to 99999999 bytes of information about the file in system-dependent format. The labels and the format and layout of the associated values for each system type should be clearly defined and documented. The sequence (LBLEN, LABEL, VALEN, VALUE) may be repeated for as many labeled values are needed (if VALEN is zero, then VALUE is omitted). CONTENT The file's contents, encoded in whatever form that, in combination with the labeled values, allows for its eventual reconstruction in its original form. REQUIRED LABELS The following labels (composed of ASCII uppercase letters) are reserved, and are required in every labeled file: VERS The operating system version, e.g. "5.3-1" DATA This is the final label. It has a zero-length value, which is followed immediately by the file's contents, as defined above. See example below. EFFECTS ON THE KERMIT PROTOCOL When SET FILE TYPE LABELED is in effect, the sending Kermit should include the file type (") attribute, specifying a type of binary (B), if attribute packets have been negotiated. Otherwise, there is no effect on the protocol at all. In particular, a label-wise Kermit program can interoperate perfectly well with another Kermit program that is completely ignorant of labeling, in which case the latter program simply "archives" the file, labels and all. This proposal does not rule out the system-independent type of file archiving, based on file attribute packets, that is described in the Kermit book. However, if the "system-dependent" attributes suggested by this proposal can be worked out in a sufficiently generic fashion, this may lead to a more effective type of transmission of complex files between unlike systems that share similar types of file characteristics (block size, record format, character set, carriage control, etc). On the other hand, for the first pass at an implementation (for VMS), it might make more sense to simply have a single system-dependent label, like "FAB", whose value is simply the File Access Block, and perhaps another one like "ACL" for its Access Control List. The two approaches do not rule each other out. USER INTERFACE When SENDING a file, the user should first determine whether it is a bare file or a labeled file. This can be done by visual inspection (looking at the first 20 bytes), or from memory (e.g. because all labeled files have a particular filetype, or are kept together in a certain directory). Then: (a) If it is a bare file, use SET FILE TYPE LABELED if you want to send label information too. (b) If it is a labeled file, use SET FILE TYPE BINARY. When receiving a file, use SET FILE TYPE LABELED if you want labels in the incoming file to be interpreted and applied, and: (a) The other Kermit is sending a bare file from a like system using SET FILE TYPE LABELED, or: (b) The other Kermit is sending a labeled file, of the receiving system's system type, from any kind of system, without SET FILE TYPE LABELED. The receiving Kermit program that has been given a SET FILE TYPE LABELED command must inspect the incoming data. The first 30-36 bytes of the first packet contain the BANNER, IDLEN, SYSID, and the first LBLEN, and LABEL (which should be "04VERS"). If these five items are in correct format, and the SYSID matches the program's own, then the program will accept the file in labeled mode. Otherwise, it will treat it as a binary file and store all the data, including BANNER, SYSID, LABELs, VALUEs, and all length fields. If a receiving Kermit program has accepted the file in labeled mode, but then encounters an unknown label or other inconsistency in the labeled file format, it must interrupt the file transfer (by putting an X in the data field of the first available ACK) and discard the file. This is because it cannot be expected to back up and undo whatever label interpretation it has already done. It is also conceivable that "similar" systems -- such as the DEC operating systems VMS and RSX-11 -- might be able to honor each other's labels. This eventuality should be allowed for, possibly with SET commands. At the discretion of the programmer, a command such as SET FILE LABEL-DETECTION { AUTOMATIC, MANUAL } could be installed. If so, the default must be MANUAL, that is, processing of labeled files occurs only if the user asks for it explicitly. For an arriving file, AUTOMATIC mode would detect the BANNER, SYSID, and first LABEL and go into action as if the user had SET FILE TYPE LABELED. When sending a file, the program would avoid adding surrounding label information if the user had already SET FILE TYPE LABELED. This sort of thing is obviously dangerous, and users should be cautioned about it. EXAMPLE A hypothetical example for VMS (ignore the indentation and line breaks); the length fields are marked with L's: LL LL LLLLLLLL LL LLLLLLLL KERMIT LABELED FILE:02D704VERS000000055.3-103FAB00000512<512 bytes here> 03ACL00000723<723 bytes here>02DATA00000000 LL LLLLLLLL LL LLLLLLLL Note: FAB and ACL are not necessarily real labels. POSTPROCESSING Separate programs should be provided to translate a labeled file into a real file, to be used in case the user forgot to SET FILE TYPE LABELED, or the file was deposited by means other than Kermit. Such a program might have two options (or come in two forms): interpret the labels, and simply strip the labels. (End) You can find the VMS implementation in the file ckvfio.c in the Kermit archives. - Frank 22-Mar-96 7:46:10-GMT,2888;000000000001 Received: from spcvxa.spc.edu (spcvxa.spc.edu [192.107.46.27]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA24391 for ; Fri, 22 Mar 1996 02:46:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from spcvxa.spc.edu by spcvxa.spc.edu (PMDF V5.0-4 #14038) id <01I2MGA8FIFM8WXFI0@spcvxa.spc.edu>; Fri, 22 Mar 1996 02:45:54 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 02:45:54 -0500 (EST) From: "Terry Kennedy, Operations Mgr" Subject: Re: PDP-11 Kermit To: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Cc: jasantos@ultranet.com, billy@mix.com, jaltman@columbia.edu Message-id: <01I2MGA8FS2S8WXFI0@spcvxa.spc.edu> Organization: St. Peter's College, US X-VMS-To: IN%"fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu" X-VMS-Cc: IN%"jasantos@ultranet.com",IN%"billy@mix.com",IN%"jaltman@columbia.edu",TERRY MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Second, I do hope you and Billy can get together on merging sources -- then > only RSX and IAS are left out in the cold, and this might be sufficient > incentive for somebody somewhere to merge that one in too. (Terry, maybe you > want to post this on DECUSserve?) I can, but there aren't many RSX people there (Alan Frisbie was the main one, and he doesn't log in any more). Given the apathy shown by the VMS crowd, I think we might as well wait for someone to show up and complain, and then pin a "volunteer" button on them 8-) > Third, as you may know, we gave up on trying to stuff complex file attributes > into A packets, and we settled on a different approach, called "labeled file > transfer", for transferring complex file objects like RMS indexed files, etc. > This has been implemented in C-Kermit for VMS and in C-Kermit for OS/2. > > The trick would be to make Kermit-11 have a labeled mode just like VMS > C-Kermit, and for the two to be able to interoperate. Any thoughts on this, > Terry? Yes. "Eeeew, yuck" 8-) Seriously, while VMS and RSTS/E both use RMS, they're very different ver- sions of RMS, and any labeled transfer code would have to know about them and what things aren't compatible. Even DEC doesn't have a complete list - I found quite a few new ones when I added labeled support to VMS (as you may remember, one of my test cases was sending a file with the filespec of SPC11Z"user password"::DISK:[p,pn]filnam.typ and seeing what happened. There is special-case code in VMS C-K for this particular stuff). Since the PDP-11 has a tight address space, I suggest we tell people to put their VMS-to-RSTS and vice-versa files in BACKUP savesets (which are compatible) and let the operating systems figure it out on the restore pass. As long as RSTS/E Kermit supports non-RMS as well as RMS files and doesn't turn one into the other [unless asked to?], I think we'll be fine (and far better off than we are now). John, thanks again for volunteering! Terry 10-Apr-96 22:35:24-GMT,2480;000000000011 Received: from mail1.digital.com (mail1.digital.com [204.123.2.50]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA03172 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 1996 18:35:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from us3rmc.pa.dec.com by mail1.digital.com (5.65 EXP 4/12/95 for V3.2/1.0/WV) id AA14526; Wed, 10 Apr 1996 15:28:07 -0700 Received: from csc32.enet by us3rmc.pa.dec.com (5.65/rmc-22feb94) id AA20484; Wed, 10 Apr 96 15:01:16 -0700 Message-Id: <9604102201.AA20484@us3rmc.pa.dec.com> Received: from csc32.enet; by us3rmc.enet; Wed, 10 Apr 96 15:28:09 PDT Date: Wed, 10 Apr 96 15:28:09 PDT From: "I am not a man, I AM A FREE NUMBER" To: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Cc: billy@mix.com, shoppa@triumf.ca, brook@csc32.ENET.dec.com Apparently-To: shoppa@triumf.ca, billy@mix.com, fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Subject: Kermit for RT-11 Frank, By way of introduction, I work for Mentec Inc, who bought the PDP-11 software (operating systems / layered products etc) from Digital in '94. We are looking into the possibility of releasing a new version of RT-11 (in all probability, the last) A common request amongst the RT-11 user community is that we distribute a copy of Kermit with new RT-11 distributions. (In fact this applies to RSX as well ... but that is not included in this request). This request is in part for convenience because most RT-11 systems are now DEC RX50 floppy or TK50 distributed. Users must find some other means to unpack Columbia's distributions (Mentec has been approached many times to do this). We have approached the author of K/RT (Billy Youdelman) and he too is keen on this idea. Billy's Kermit implementation was based on Brian Nelson's Kermit-11, so presumably this would also require Brian's permission ? We acknowledge that Columbia holds the distribution rights to the Kermit implementations, but would like to obtain permission for its inclusion in a toolkit for RT-11 to be distributed as an adjunct to the RT-11 distribution. This would be as a no-additional cost inclusion to the user. Please could you advise on whether Columbia might be prepared to permit this distribution, and on whether we would need to approach Brian Nelson (do you have a means to contact him?) ? Thanks, Stuart Brook PDP-11 Software Engineering Mentec Inc ps Might Columbia be prepared to extend this permission to all the flavours of Kermit for PDP-11s or might we have to pursue this on a case by case basis? 10-Apr-96 23:04:17-GMT,4024;000000000401 Received: (from fdc@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA06286; Wed, 10 Apr 1996 19:02:15 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 10 Apr 96 19:02:14 EDT From: Frank da Cruz To: Stuart Brook Cc: billy@mix.com, shoppa@triumf.ca Subject: Re: Kermit for RT-11 In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 10 Apr 96 15:28:09 PDT Message-ID: > By way of introduction, I work for Mentec Inc, who bought the PDP-11 software > (operating systems / layered products etc) from Digital in '94. > Hi, Glad to meet you -- speaking as one who has (or had) been using PDP-11s since the DOS-11 days (and -7s and -8s before that), and who once ran a huge RSTS installation at Columbia (but then graduated to -10s and -20s, then to UNIX, then away from DEC altogether -- the old story...) > We are looking into the possibility of releasing a new version of RT-11 > (in all probability, the last) > > A common request amongst the RT-11 user community is that we distribute a > copy of Kermit with new RT-11 distributions. (In fact this applies to RSX > as well ... but that is not included in this request). This request is in > part for convenience because most RT-11 systems are now DEC RX50 floppy or > TK50 distributed. Users must find some other means to unpack Columbia's > distributions (Mentec has been approached many times to do this). > > We have approached the author of K/RT (Billy Youdelman) and he too is keen > on this idea. Billy's Kermit implementation was based on Brian Nelson's > Kermit-11, so presumably this would also require Brian's permission ? > Brian retired from Kermit-11 development and support many years ago. However, technically the source code does have a copyright notice on it that Brian put there, so yes, we'll need to bring Brian in on this. > We acknowledge that Columbia holds the distribution rights to the Kermit > implementations, but would like to obtain permission for its inclusion > in a toolkit for RT-11 to be distributed as an adjunct to the RT-11 > distribution. This would be as a no-additional cost inclusion to the user. > > Please could you advise on whether Columbia might be prepared to permit > this distribution, and on whether we would need to approach Brian Nelson > (do you have a means to contact him?) ? > I'll see if I can raise him. Meanwhile, there has been some resurgence of interest in Kermit-11, and a new version seems to be in the works for RSTS; i.e. folding RSTS support into KRT to make a new common version, and adding some new features, etc -- I'm sure Billy told you about it. I'm inclined to say "go ahead" since we obtain approximately zero revenue from Kermit-11 distribution. But I have to be careful. First I think we do need to clear it with Brian. Second, in all good conscience we should consider the impact, if any, on DECUS, as I believe they had been making some money from distributing Kermit-11 on weird media (i.e. media that we don't have). But third, it might set a bad precedent for us at Columbia. How can we be so strict about not letting commercial outfits distribute MS-DOS Kermit or C-Kermit, but then turn around and let your company distribute Kermit-11? Clearly there would need to be some form of license, and it would need to be nonexclusive. Whether you sell Kermit-11 or give it away would be up to you, but I think Columbia would need to get something out of it, and probably also Billy and/or Brian. The first step is for me to get in touch with Brian. > Might Columbia be prepared to extend this permission to all the flavours > of Kermit for PDP-11s or might we have to pursue this on a case by case > basis? > If we can come to an arrangement, it should also cover all versions of Kermit-11 -- RSX and IAS (and TSX+, but that's not yours), whatever other odd variants there are, e.g. for Pro-3xx's (Pro/RT?)... I'll get back to when I hear from Brian or my attempts to reach him time out. - Frank 11-Apr-96 0:39:48-GMT,3252;000000000011 Received: from mail1.digital.com (mail1.digital.com [204.123.2.50]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA15791 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 1996 20:39:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from us3rmc.pa.dec.com by mail1.digital.com (5.65 EXP 4/12/95 for V3.2/1.0/WV) id AA00786; Wed, 10 Apr 1996 17:26:17 -0700 Received: from csc32.enet by us3rmc.pa.dec.com (5.65/rmc-22feb94) id AA23148; Wed, 10 Apr 96 16:25:15 -0700 Message-Id: <9604102325.AA23148@us3rmc.pa.dec.com> Received: from csc32.enet; by us3rmc.enet; Wed, 10 Apr 96 17:26:18 PDT Date: Wed, 10 Apr 96 17:26:18 PDT From: "I am not a man, I AM A FREE NUMBER" To: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Cc: billy@mix.com, shoppa@triumf.ca, brook@csc32.ENET.dec.com Apparently-To: shoppa@triumf.ca, billy@mix.com, fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Subject: Re: Kermit for RT-11 Frank Thanks for your reply ... I don't think that DECUS should be a particular problem. We have had referrals both from Columbia (sorry ... I don't know who made the referrals) and from DECUS to obtain Kermit-11 on usable media! > But third, it might >set a bad precedent for us at Columbia. How can we be so strict about not >letting commercial outfits distribute MS-DOS Kermit or C-Kermit, but then >turn around and let your company distribute Kermit-11? Firstly ... Full acknowledgement of Columbia, Brian and Billy would have to be made on the kit, and that it is being distributed with Columbia's permission solely as a benefit to users and without monetary benefit to Mentec. Billy has made a suggestion which I believe Mentec can accomodate and will represent his permission and direct problem support. As for benefits for Columbia, the immediate and obvious one is that you could be relieved the overhead of producion (and potentially the maintenance interface) for the Kermit-11 products. You did imply that Columbia gets virtually nothing from them now, so our doing the distribution for them would not really change what is status quo. If we were selling Kermit, clearly royalties to Columbia would be in order, but this would add a level of complexity that would negate user benefits, and make it potentially more work for us than it might be worth. Any license to distribute would of course be non-exclusive, this would not be the goal. In this manner your distribution rights would be preserved, and Mentec would in essence be acting as your agents, with some pro-active distributions as well as on-demand distributions. This makes sense for a declining product base such as the PDP-11s, but certainly wouldn't for the more active products like PCKermit or C-Kermits. >If we can come to an arrangement, it should also cover all versions of >Kermit-11 -- RSX and IAS (and TSX+, but that's not yours), whatever other >odd variants there are, e.g. for Pro-3xx's (Pro/RT?)... Makes a lot of sense ... I wasn't sure how you might want to approach it. >I'll get back to when I hear from Brian or my attempts to reach him time out. Great ... look forward to your response ... At this stage, this is exploratory, so these ideas are purely for working towards a possible agreement, and are not committal on either Mentec, nor Columbia. Stuart 17-Apr-96 0:21:07-GMT,3543;000000000001 Received: (from fdc@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA08552; Tue, 16 Apr 1996 20:19:48 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 96 20:19:48 EDT From: Frank da Cruz To: "I am not a man, I AM A FREE NUMBER" Subject: Re: Kermit for RT-11 In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 10 Apr 96 17:26:18 PDT Message-ID: > Firstly ... Full acknowledgement of Columbia, Brian and Billy would > have to be made on the kit, and that it is being distributed with Columbia's > permission solely as a benefit to users and without monetary benefit to > Mentec. > > Billy has made a suggestion which I believe Mentec can accomodate and will > represent his permission and direct problem support. > > As for benefits for Columbia, the immediate and obvious one is that you > could be relieved the overhead of producion (and potentially the maintenance > interface) for the Kermit-11 products. You did imply that Columbia gets > virtually nothing from them now, so our doing the distribution for them > would not really change what is status quo. > Well, virtually nothing is something on the order of $1000 a year in recent years, so it's not *exactly* nothing. These days, every little bit helps. > If we were selling Kermit, clearly royalties to Columbia would be in order, > but this would add a level of complexity that would negate user benefits, > and make it potentially more work for us than it might be worth. > > Any license to distribute would of course be non-exclusive, this would not > be the goal. In this manner your distribution rights would be preserved, > and Mentec would in essence be acting as your agents, with some pro-active > distributions as well as on-demand distributions. This makes sense for > a declining product base such as the PDP-11s, but certainly wouldn't for > the more active products like PCKermit or C-Kermits. > > >If we can come to an arrangement, it should also cover all versions of > >Kermit-11 -- RSX and IAS (and TSX+, but that's not yours), whatever other > >odd variants there are, e.g. for Pro-3xx's (Pro/RT?)... > > Makes a lot of sense ... I wasn't sure how you might want to approach it. > Brian says: Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 05:28:54 -0500 (EST) From: Brian Nelson Subject: Re: [Frank da Cruz : Re: Kermit for RT-11] To: Frank da Cruz Cc: BNELSON@nova.wright.edu Frank, Sorry for the delay, I've been in the hospital for a few days. I have no problem with including k11 with rt11, fine with me. brian Brian Nelson VMS and Network Systems Programing bnelson@desire.wright.edu 2024 Sandown, Toledo, Oh 43615 419.531.7592 So that's out of the way. Of course you might want to get it writing from him or something, that's up to you. As for Columbia, I appreciate that this is a good thing in all ways but one, namely the setting of precedents that might be hard for us to wiggle out of later. To get around this, I'd ask one or both of the following: 1. Payment of an undisclosed (token) amount of money as a license fee. 2. Whenever you distribute a product that contains Kermit-11, you also include a promotional flyer for other Kermit software -- after all, people who need Kermit-11 will probably need a Kemit program on the other end of the connection, and Columbia is where they should get it from. Are we getting there? - Frank 17-Apr-96 1:16:53-GMT,3246;000000000011 Received: from mail1.digital.com (mail1.digital.com [204.123.2.50]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA14100 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 1996 21:16:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from us3rmc.pa.dec.com by mail1.digital.com (5.65 EXP 4/12/95 for V3.2/1.0/WV) id AA07631; Tue, 16 Apr 1996 18:08:22 -0700 Received: from csc32.enet by us3rmc.pa.dec.com (5.65/rmc-22feb94) id AA06938; Tue, 16 Apr 96 17:47:34 -0700 Message-Id: <9604170047.AA06938@us3rmc.pa.dec.com> Received: from csc32.enet; by us3rmc.enet; Tue, 16 Apr 96 18:08:23 PDT Date: Tue, 16 Apr 96 18:08:23 PDT From: "I am not a man, I AM A FREE NUMBER" To: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Cc: brook@csc32.ENET.dec.com Apparently-To: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Subject: Re: Kermit for RT-11 Hi Frank, >As for Columbia, I appreciate that this is a good thing in all ways but one, >namely the setting of precedents that might be hard for us to wiggle out of >later. To get around this, I'd ask one or both of the following: > > 1. Payment of an undisclosed (token) amount of money as a license fee. > > 2. Whenever you distribute a product that contains Kermit-11, you also > include a promotional flyer for other Kermit software -- after all, > people who need Kermit-11 will probably need a Kemit program on the > other end of the connection, and Columbia is where they should get > it from. > >Are we getting there? I will forward this on to Mentec management ... when it comes to the monetary side of the business, this is not my area ... I'm trying to co-ordinate a product release from the technical side. Just as a matter of curiosity what kind of "token" amount are you looking at ? Are you looking at a one time fee or an annual fee etc ? The promotional information for Kermit can certainly be included in kits distributed and sold by Mentec ... I don't forsee a problem there. BUT, because of our business arrangement with Digital, Digital also sells the product essentially as theirs. We may have problems even getting mention in the release notes for Digital kits. Such promotional information can certainly be included in readme info in the kit. Would describing Mentec's position as a contracted agent to distribute kermit for PDP-11s on Columbia's behalf help in the precedent setting, and technical reasons could be provided for that ... e.g.ready to run on popular PDP-11 media? That would then leave the only precedent as proactive distribution, and that comes down to the fact that as many customers migrate to other platforms, it will assist in that migration without having to bother Columbia or Mentec for the product. It is not as if Mentec is going to sell additional copies of any PDP-11 product solely because of the inclusion of Kermit! In fact it is unlikely that we'll sell more than a few copies to customers who don't have the product now anyway! So including Kermit is not going to give any competetive edge ... The only competition really is when the customer migrates to another platform ... not if! So, I'll pass this on to Mentec management. I'll need some idea of what "token" means also, and your reactions to how we provide promotional info for Columbia. Stuart 17-Apr-96 18:54:08-GMT,2765;000000000001 Received: (from fdc@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA03193; Wed, 17 Apr 1996 14:52:47 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 96 14:52:47 EDT From: Frank da Cruz To: "I am not a man, I AM A FREE NUMBER" Subject: Re: Kermit for RT-11 In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 16 Apr 96 18:08:23 PDT Message-ID: > I will forward this on to Mentec management ... when it comes to the monetary > side of the business, this is not my area ... I'm trying to co-ordinate a > product release from the technical side. > > Just as a matter of curiosity what kind of "token" amount are you looking at > ? Are you looking at a one time fee or an annual fee etc ? > How about a one-time fee of $500.00? > The promotional information for Kermit can certainly be included in kits > distributed and sold by Mentec ... I don't forsee a problem there. BUT, > because of our business arrangement with Digital, Digital also sells the > product essentially as theirs. We may have problems even getting mention in > the release notes for Digital kits. Such promotional information can > certainly be included in readme info in the kit. > Whatever we can accomplish with Digital is to the good. As you probably know, Kermit pretty much grew up in the Digital marketplace. They should be receptive to the idea. But if they won't stuff a flyer, then readme material is OK too. > Would describing Mentec's position as a contracted agent to distribute > kermit for PDP-11s on Columbia's behalf help in the precedent setting, and > technical reasons could be provided for that ... e.g.ready to run on popular > PDP-11 media? > Sure. > That would then leave the only precedent as proactive distribution, and that > comes down to the fact that as many customers migrate to other platforms, it > will assist in that migration without having to bother Columbia or Mentec > for the product. > Right. In fact, I have found that PDP-11 users tend to come to us in a panic at migration time, begging for (say) RT-11 Kermit on an RX08, RK05, DECtape, punched cards, or somesuch. (I don't actually imagine that you have these devices :-) So this is definitely a good service, and a good deed, although a bit melancholy, like being a pallbearer. > So, I'll pass this on to Mentec management. I'll need some idea of what > "token" means also, and your reactions to how we provide promotional info > for Columbia. > A flyer printed on paper would be best, so they actually encounter it physically. I can provide PostScript source. Just laser-printing it would be fine. If you don't have a PostScript printer, I can even send the physical flyers. Sounds OK? - Frank 26-Apr-96 3:59:11-GMT,3976;000000000011 Received: from cs.bu.edu (CS.BU.EDU [128.197.13.2]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA13970 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 1996 23:59:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from csa.bu.edu by cs.bu.edu (8.6.10/Spike-2.1) id XAA23777; Thu, 25 Apr 1996 23:57:03 -0400 From: budd@cs.bu.edu (Phil Budne) Received: by csa.bu.edu (8.6.10/Spike-2.1) id XAA14248; Thu, 25 Apr 1996 23:56:59 -0400 Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 23:56:59 -0400 Message-Id: <199604260356.XAA14248@csa.bu.edu> To: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Subject: misc Hi, I've seen several kermit postings from you in the last few days, which made me think of a few items; A few years ago I asked if the old documentation that had a simple C kermit implementation was still available, and you said no. Recently I gained access to a 1/2" tape drive, and I dug out my old DUMPER and BACKUP-10 tapes, and found the above mentioned files; home% gtar tzvf kerm.tar.gz drwxrwxr-x phil/phil 0 Apr 25 23:44 1996 kerm/ -rw-rw---- phil/phil 1006 Oct 25 09:17 1982 kerm/conect.c -rw-rw---- phil/phil 3401 Oct 25 09:02 1982 kerm/io.c -rw-rw---- phil/phil 1349 Oct 25 08:59 1982 kerm/k.h -rw-rw-r-- phil/phil 7536 Jun 10 23:53 1981 kerm/cmd.mac -rw-rw-r-- phil/phil 127493 Jun 23 16:04 1983 kerm/kermit.mac -rw-rw-r-- phil/phil 98855 Apr 29 11:31 1983 kerm/proto.doc -rw-rw---- phil/phil 4037 Oct 25 09:08 1982 kerm/reciev.c -rw-rw-r-- phil/phil 60753 Apr 8 11:56 1983 kerm/rtkermit.pas -rw-rw---- phil/phil 4908 Oct 25 09:02 1982 kerm/send.c -rw-rw-r-- phil/phil 189560 May 4 23:09 1983 kerm/user.doc -rw-rw-r-- phil/phil 201981 May 4 23:20 1983 kerm/user.lpt -rw-rw---- phil/phil 1400 Oct 25 09:03 1982 kerm/util.c -rw-rw-r-- phil/phil 9029 Aug 14 19:59 1978 kerm/cmd.doc Let me know if any of this is of any interest to you, and I'll drop it via FTP... Also On my tapes I found a copy of the chapter you wrote for the never published book about PDP-10's by Les Earnest and Joe Dempster. All of the chapters I have have been made publicly available, except yours. Les and Joe gave me permission to distribute them, IFF I got permission from the authors, so I'm asking! Here is the top of the file I have; From: GIDNEY::DEMPSTER 4-NOV-1988 10:27 To: ARTUD2::DEMPSTER Subj: [Frank da Cruz : Second draft...] ======== Date: 6 Nov 1988 1020-EST From: "Joe Dempster, DTN 336.2023, AT&T 609.273.2023" To: dempster@artud2 Subject: [Frank da Cruz : Second draft...] Message-ID: <"MS11(6044)+GLXLIB6(0)" 12444405453.197.30.67844 at GIDNEY> - - - - - - - Begin message from: Frank da Cruz Return-Path: Received: from columbia.edu by TOPS20.DEC.COM with TCP; Sat 5 Nov 88 21:13:01-E Received: from cunixc.cc.columbia.edu by columbia.edu (5.54/1.14) id AA13255; Sat, 5 Nov 88 21:13:22 EST Received: by cunixc.cc.columbia.edu (5.54/5.10) id AA17156; Sat, 5 Nov 88 21:1312 EST Date: Sat, 5 Nov 1988 21:13:10 EST From: Frank da Cruz To: "Joe Dempster, DTN 336.2023, AT&T 609.273.2023" In-Reply-To: Your message of 18 Oct 1988 1310-EDT Subject: Second draft... Message-Id: OK, here it again, updated according to your comments, and also polished up in parts. Let us know if it's OK. - Frank & Chris THE RISE AND FALL AND RISE OF THE DECSYSTEM-20 AT COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY Frank da Cruz and Christine Gianone S E C O N D D R A F T November 7, 1988 -phil P.S. Rereading it, I don't recall ever having heard that the DECSYSTEM-20 name was the result of a slip of the Caps Lock key (and I worked at LCG in the 80's). 26-Apr-96 17:17:24-GMT,1859;000000000001 Received: (from fdc@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA08416; Fri, 26 Apr 1996 13:17:14 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 26 Apr 96 13:17:13 EDT From: Frank da Cruz To: budd@cs.bu.edu (Phil Budne) Subject: Re: misc In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 25 Apr 1996 23:56:59 -0400 Message-ID: > A few years ago I asked if the old documentation that had a simple C > kermit implementation was still available, and you said no. Recently > I gained access to a 1/2" tape drive, and I dug out my old DUMPER and > BACKUP-10 tapes, and found the above mentioned files; > ... > Let me know if any of this is of any interest to you, and I'll > drop it via FTP... > Wow -- some of those files are 18 years old, and definitely long-lost here. By all means tar them up (so as to preserve the dates) and drop them into kermit/incoming on kermit.columbia.edu (login as anonymous). > Also On my tapes I found a copy of the chapter you wrote for the never > published book about PDP-10's by Les Earnest and Joe Dempster. All of > the chapters I have have been made publicly available, except yours. > Les and Joe gave me permission to distribute them, IFF I got > permission from the authors, so I'm asking! > OK, fine. Just replace "Second Draft" with: Copyright (C) 1988, Frank da Cruz and Christine Gianone. All rights reserved. (Just on the infinitesimal chance that it might ever find its way into a book or magazine some day...) And let me know where you put it. > P.S. Rereading it, I don't recall ever having heard that the > DECSYSTEM-20 name was the result of a slip of the Caps Lock key (and I > worked at LCG in the 80's). > I can't remember exactly who told me that, but it was definitely a DEC LCG insider. Maybe it was a joke but they did say it. - Frank 2-May-96 6:42:22-GMT,2735;000000000411 Received: from mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu (mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.35.143]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA09745 for ; Thu, 2 May 1996 02:42:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chx400.switch.ch (chx400.switch.ch [130.59.10.2]) by mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA04268 for ; Thu, 2 May 1996 02:42:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from syseca.dial-switch.ch by chx400.switch.ch with SMTP (PP) id <28857-0@chx400.switch.ch>; Thu, 2 May 1996 08:42:04 +0200 Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19960502074159.1cd75346@scsing.switch.ch> X-Sender: SYSECA@scsing.switch.ch X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 02 May 1996 08:41:59 +0100 To: kermit@columbia.edu From: Sasha Cvetkovic Subject: Kermit on PDP Hi there, I have a problem using Kermit on a PDP (RSX-11) !!! Please do not ask why I am using these old machines. The PDP is connected to a "robot" and the old SW for the robot-control is written in PDP-assembler (I am only a simple user, the author is not "known") etc. etc. The problem is the following: - I am running Kermit on PDP (Kermit version 1989/90 or so) in server mode. A PC gets the data via kermit from the PDP and transfers those data to more decent machines (DEC Alpha) for further processing. - When running kermit in server mode on a PDP machine the input on the PDP terminal where Kermit was started is "blocked" for input. Again, do not ask why I can not use another terminal for other input... all serial inputs are reserved for the robot-control... I can not invest more money in old HW Questions: - Can I start Kermit in server mode on a PDP so that it runs as a subprocess in background so that on the SAME terminal another tasks (MCR commands) may be executed? - Can I start easily Kermit in a subprocess using MCR CMDs so that it runs constantly in a background so that...? On a VAX machine it would be easy --> SUBMIT, SPAWN... what is the equivalent on PDP/RSX/MCR The main problem is that I do not have access to RSX documentation and in the Kermit documentation (for PDP) I could not find a way to solve the problem. Can you help me? Or can you forward my mail to somebody knowing more about PDPs using Kermit? It is probably a very simple solution if one knows the right commands. Regards Sasha +--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- | SYSECA Systems Engineering Inc. | Gubelstrasse 11 | CH-6300 Z u g | Switzerland | | Phone: +41 41 720 14 11 | Fax: +41 41 720 16 55 +--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- 2-May-96 6:46:03-GMT,2712;000000000001 Received: from mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu (mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.35.143]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA10054 for ; Thu, 2 May 1996 02:46:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chx400.switch.ch (chx400.switch.ch [130.59.10.2]) by mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA04529 for ; Thu, 2 May 1996 02:46:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from syseca.dial-switch.ch by chx400.switch.ch with SMTP (PP) id <29130-0@chx400.switch.ch>; Thu, 2 May 1996 08:45:52 +0200 Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19960502074546.21a768b2@scsing.switch.ch> X-Sender: SYSECA@scsing.switch.ch X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 02 May 1996 08:45:46 +0100 To: kermit@columbia.edu From: Sasha Cvetkovic Hi there, I have a problem using Kermit on a PDP (RSX-11) !!! Please do not ask why I am using these old machines. The PDP is connected to a "robot" and the old SW for the robot-control is written in PDP-assembler (I am only a simple user, the author is not "known") etc. etc. The problem is the following: - I am running Kermit on PDP (Kermit version 1989/90 or so) in server mode. A PC gets the data via kermit from the PDP and transfers those data to more decent machines (DEC Alpha) for further processing. - When running kermit in server mode on a PDP machine the input on the PDP terminal where Kermit was started is "blocked" for input. Again, do not ask why I can not use another terminal for other input... all serial inputs are reserved for the robot-control... I can not invest more money in old HW Questions: - Can I start Kermit in server mode on a PDP so that it runs as a subprocess in background so that on the SAME terminal another tasks (MCR commands) may be executed? - Can I start easily Kermit in a subprocess using MCR CMDs so that it runs constantly in a background so that...? On a VAX machine it would be easy --> SUBMIT, SPAWN... what is the equivalent on PDP/RSX/MCR The main problem is that I do not have access to RSX documentation and in the Kermit documentation (for PDP) I could not find a way to solve the problem. Can you help me? Or can you forward my mail to somebody knowing more about PDPs using Kermit? It is probably a very simple solution if one knows the right commands. Regards Sasha +--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- | SYSECA Systems Engineering Inc. | Gubelstrasse 11 | CH-6300 Z u g | Switzerland | | Phone: +41 41 720 14 11 | Fax: +41 41 720 16 55 +--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- 2-May-96 13:09:39-GMT,1363;000000000011 Received: from merlin.nando.net (merlin.nando.net [152.52.2.2]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA20570 for ; Thu, 2 May 1996 09:09:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bsydnor.nando.net (grail1504.nando.net) by merlin.nando.net (4.1/davel-nando/dec93) id AA08139; Thu, 2 May 96 09:09:54 EDT Message-Id: <3188B411.14C1@nando.net> Date: Thu, 02 May 1996 09:09:37 -0400 From: Bob Sydnor Organization: Independent Data Processing X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Frank da Cruz Subject: Re: Kermit95 feature question References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > However, in the meantime, we're investigating some of the more esoteric > "ANSI"-based "standards" like SCO ANSI and AT386, and we find that we might > still need to preserve a degree of user control of color treatment in various > situations, so not to worry :-) > > - Frank OK, I'll wait and see! Thanks for responding to my questions. Its a real honor to talk with the real "Kermit guy"! We've used Kermit for years and years on PDP's, Vaxes and Alpha's and PC's. You can't find a better program for any price. I look forward to using Kermit95. I'm sending my order in today. Cheers. 3-May-96 13:48:55-GMT,1037;000000000001 Received: from merlin.nando.net (merlin.nando.net [152.52.2.2]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA04250 for ; Fri, 3 May 1996 09:48:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bsydnor.nando.net (grail1702.nando.net) by merlin.nando.net (4.1/davel-nando/dec93) id AA03801; Fri, 3 May 96 09:49:08 EDT Message-Id: <318A0ECC.6AB4@nando.net> Date: Fri, 03 May 1996 09:49:00 -0400 From: Bob Sydnor Organization: Independent Data Processing X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Frank da Cruz Subject: Re: Kermit95 feature question References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Thanks! Btw, you don't happen to still have any PDP-11s around, do you? > If so, which OS's? There seems to be a revival of interest in PDP-11 > Kermit... Just a lone PDP 11/83 running RSTS/E V9.6-11. If it's of any use to you, I'll offer it as a BETA site. Thx. 3-May-96 15:35:36-GMT,462;000000000001 Received: (from fdc@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA18500; Fri, 3 May 1996 11:35:29 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 3 May 96 11:35:29 EDT From: Frank da Cruz To: jasantos@ultranet.com Subject: Kermit 11 Message-ID: Hi John. Just touching base... Did anything come of your idea to upgrade the RSTS version of Kermit-11 and integrate it with KRT? Thanks! - Frank 3-May-96 18:28:24-GMT,1550;000000000001 Received: from perseus.ultra.net (perseus.ultra.net [199.232.56.6]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA11534 for ; Fri, 3 May 1996 14:28:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vandal.ultranet.com (vandal.ultranet.com [146.115.249.148]) by perseus.ultra.net (8.7.4/dae0.6) with SMTP id OAA13659; Fri, 3 May 1996 14:28:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960503182827.00689fdc@pop.ma.ultranet.com> X-Sender: jasantos@pop.ma.ultranet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 03 May 1996 14:28:27 -0400 To: Frank da Cruz , jasantos@ultranet.com From: John Santos Subject: Re: Kermit 11 Hi - At 11:35 AM 5/3/96 EDT, Frank da Cruz wrote: >Hi John. Just touching base... Did anything come of your idea to upgrade >the RSTS version of Kermit-11 and integrate it with KRT? > >Thanks! > >- Frank > Yup,but very slowly. I have my changes integrated into about 2/3 of Billy Youdelman's source files for the new version of KRT which I downloaded about two months ago, so at this rate, I should be done in a month! When that's done, I'll see what he's updated since, and re-integrate the changes (which shouldn't take very long), and get them off to anyone who wants to test (Kelvin Smith has volunteer to be a test site, and I think a few other people have expressed interest; I'll have to check my mail.) Anyway, I should have something in about a month. John Santos 3-May-96 13:48:55-GMT,1037;000000000405 Received: from merlin.nando.net (merlin.nando.net [152.52.2.2]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA04250 for ; Fri, 3 May 1996 09:48:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bsydnor.nando.net (grail1702.nando.net) by merlin.nando.net (4.1/davel-nando/dec93) id AA03801; Fri, 3 May 96 09:49:08 EDT Message-Id: <318A0ECC.6AB4@nando.net> Date: Fri, 03 May 1996 09:49:00 -0400 From: Bob Sydnor Organization: Independent Data Processing X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Frank da Cruz Subject: Re: Kermit95 feature question References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Thanks! Btw, you don't happen to still have any PDP-11s around, do you? > If so, which OS's? There seems to be a revival of interest in PDP-11 > Kermit... Just a lone PDP 11/83 running RSTS/E V9.6-11. If it's of any use to you, I'll offer it as a BETA site. Thx. 8-May-96 0:20:52-GMT,911;000000000001 Received: (from fdc@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA01477; Tue, 7 May 1996 20:20:49 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 7 May 96 20:20:49 EDT From: Frank da Cruz To: jasantos@ultranet.com Subject: [Bob Sydnor : Re: Kermit95 feature question] Message-ID: John -- in case you want to unleash it on any unsuspecting testers... Date: Fri, 03 May 1996 09:49:00 -0400 From: Bob Sydnor Organization: Independent Data Processing To: Frank da Cruz Subject: Re: Kermit95 feature question > Thanks! Btw, you don't happen to still have any PDP-11s around, do you? > If so, which OS's? There seems to be a revival of interest in PDP-11 > Kermit... Just a lone PDP 11/83 running RSTS/E V9.6-11. If it's of any use to you, I'll offer it as a BETA site. Thx. 8-May-96 21:58:38-GMT,3226;000000000001 Received: from Eisner.DECUS.Org (Eisner.DECUS.Org [192.67.173.2]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA29850 for ; Wed, 8 May 1996 17:58:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Eisner.DECUS.Org by Eisner.DECUS.Org (PMDF V4.2-12 #4291) id <01I4GYFPWZN40013PU@Eisner.DECUS.Org>; Wed, 8 May 1996 17:58:16 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 08 May 1996 17:58:16 -0400 (EDT) From: billy@mix.com Subject: Re: Kermit 11 In-reply-to: <2.2.32.19960507220158.0069ccb0@pop.ma.ultranet.com> Sender: YOUDELMAN@Eisner.DECUS.Org To: jasantos@ultranet.com Cc: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu, 4654.3313@CompuServe.COM, john@egh.com, billy@mix.com Message-id: <831592696.182000.YOUDELMAN@Eisner.DECUS.Org> Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Mail-System-Version: Hi all - John Santos writes - > Some of the rough edges are listed in krtbug.lst: > > KRT bug list for RSTS/E V3.63 -- 06May96 > 1) Odd address trap after too many NAKs? (See item 2) This sounds like one buffer on the stack overruning another buffer. I thought I'd more than generously sized all these, but I'll go through it all again. This has not been any problem under RT-11. Running out of stack will be very obvious, I put it directly next to the prompt string buffer so it'll be the first thing overwritten. > 2) Max receive size for binary files: 600 < max-packet < 1920 Everything should size ok here via MAXLNG in KRTMAC.MAC, up until some segment exceeds 4096 words in size. Under RT it will still link but of course it won't run, at least not for long, if it can even be loaded in the first place. It may be necessary to shuffle some routines around to different overlays if this is the problem here. > 3) CTRL/Z acts WEIRD in command mode. I don't know what this could be. Under RT it's ok. > 4) Help seems to have some memory of the last opened file, checks it > first and declares it wrong version before finding the real help file. This is the hlpopn subroutine in KRTHLP.MAC - it writes a file name into srcnam and then calls the file opener. Perhaps the fparse sub- routine in KRTRMS.MAC needs some RSTS-specific fix? > 5) Only I&D-space version so far. > 6) Hang up goes into infinite loop. Under RT-11 I had to do timed waits one tick at a time. This is so there remains some means to abort it - there is no way to catch a ^C except between waits. This may be contributing to this problem though, under RT there is a means to detect whether the line time clock is 50Hz or 60Hz - I get that and stuff it into a reg named clkflg, which is then divided by 2 for a 1/2 sec wait. > I haven't checked back in with Billy's system > to see if there are any updates to his stuff since I downloaded the > version I started with. To build, you'll need the V03.63 sources from > Billy's machine. These files are still present and will remain available until the actual release of KRT V3.63, which I expect around June 1st. This is all quite stable, there's been no reported bug since Feb. 19th. The bulk of the work left is documentation.. Regards, and Thanks! Billy Y.. 23-Dec-96 20:23:11-GMT,5037;000000000001 Received: (from fdc@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.3/8.8.3) id PAA19735 for fdc; Mon, 23 Dec 1996 15:23:10 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 15:23:10 -0500 (EST) From: Frank da Cruz Message-Id: <199612232023.PAA19735@watsun.cc.columbia.edu> To: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Path: news.columbia.edu!news.columbia.edu!panix!news.mathworks.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!mindspring!uunet!in1.uu.net!199.0.65.182!news-in.tiac.net!posterchild!newman.egh.com!john From: "John A. Santos" Newsgroups: comp.os.rsts Subject: Re: Kermit for RSTS Version 9 for PDP11 Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 01:45:40 -0500 Organization: The Internet Access Company, Inc. Lines: 93 Distribution: inet Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: egh.tiac.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In-Reply-To: Xref: news.columbia.edu comp.os.rsts:719 On Mon, 16 Dec 1996, Andrew Newsome wrote: > My colleague & I are trying to extract data from a PDP11 running > RSTS Version 9. The machine has a quarter inch Tape only QIC 02. > If anyone could assist us in obtaining a copy of Kermit on QIC 02 > tape for the machine it would be greatly appreciated. We do not have > an inhouse PDP11. Columbia Uni have copies I believe but obviously > we can't transfer them onto the machine. > > Any help would be much appreciated. > Cheer Andy. Have a good 97! > > -- > Andrew Newsome > > The Columbia site contains both binary and "hexified" versions of the RSTS/E Kermit programs. The "hexified" version is the binary .TSK file run through a program that converts it to a format consisting only of printable ASCII 7-bit characters (and spaces and CRLF's). It should be possible to download this as a pure text file, by, for example downloading them to a PC (or anything else that supports Kermit, including VMS, UNIX, or another RSTS/E, RT-11 or RSX system), and then log into the RSTS/E system from the PC, run PIP on the RSTS/E system, and send it the .HEX file. For example, PIP K11.HEX=KB:. Then escape back to the local Kermit, and send the hex file (e.g. C-Kermit> TRANSMIT K11.HEX) When the transfer completes, you will need to reconnect to the RSTS/E system, type a ctrl/Z to PIP to get it to close the output file and exit. Do the same thing for source of the conversion program, K11HEX.MAC. Then compile and link K11HEX.MAC, and run it to convert the .HEX file back to a .TSK file $ macro/rt11 k11hex $ link/rt11 k11hex $ run k11hex *k11.tsk=k11.hex All done $ set file/prot=104 k11.tsk Once you have Kermit on the system, I think it would be a good idea to test it and simultaneously verify you got a good download of the .HEX file by using Kermit to download the .TSK file in binary mode. The older version of Kermit for RSTS is K11. It may be found in /kermit/b/k11hex.mac (the source for the de-hexifying program.) /kermit/b/k11.hex (the hexified generic version for RSTS/E.) /kermit/b/bin/k11.tsk (The binary generic version.) /kermit/b/bin/k11id.tsk (An I&D space version. Recommended as it allows larger buffer sizes, but it only works if your hardware supports I&D space. (PDP-11/70, 11/45, 11/60(?), 11/44, 11/73, 11/83, 11/84, 11/93, 11/94) In particular, it won't work on 11/23 and 11/24 (F11 chip) systems. There doesn't seem to be a hexified version of k11id at Columbia.) There is a new version of Kermit for RSTS/E on the Columbia FTP site, based on Billy Yodelman's KRT for RT-11. All the wonderful new features in it are Billy's work; all the bugs and restrictions in the RSTS/E version are mine. It should have much better performance than K11 in most circumstances, but not all the features work yet in RSTS/E. In particular, dialing doesn't work very well. You can connect to a Hayes-compatible (or other) modem, and manually send AT commands (or what ever is appropriate), or blindly dial by forcing a text string to the modem, but there are serious timing problems in the built-in, modem-aware dialing commands, that prevent the "DIAL" command from working most of the time. It is still very much a test version The KRT versions are /kermit/test/pdp11/krthex.mac (source for dehexifying program) /kermit/test/pdp11/krtid.tsk (binary I&D version) /kermit/test/pdp11/krtid.hex (hexified I&D version) /kermit/test/pdp11/krthlp.hlp (online help file, which is invaluable, even though it only reflects the RT-11 version.) I haven't been able to get the non-I&D version to link yet; it is a matter of playing with the overlay structure and making compromises about buffer sizes until it fits in 32K words. If anyone who understands TKB overlays better than I do wants to take a whack at it, they are welcome! Sources for both the K11 version and the KRT version are also on the Columbia system, so you could also try downloading those and rebuilding it on the destination RSTS system. - John Santos 23-Dec-96 20:23:51-GMT,2868;000000000001 Received: (from fdc@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.3/8.8.3) id PAA19806 for fdc; Mon, 23 Dec 1996 15:23:51 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 15:23:51 -0500 (EST) From: Frank da Cruz Message-Id: <199612232023.PAA19806@watsun.cc.columbia.edu> To: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Path: news.columbia.edu!news.columbia.edu!panix!news.mathworks.com!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!insync!uunet!in1.uu.net!128.250.1.21!munnari.OZ.AU!metro!metro!decus!geremin From: geremin@decus.org.au (PDP-11 Trainee Guru) Newsgroups: comp.os.rsts Subject: Re: Kermit for RSTS Version 9 for PDP11 Message-ID: <1996Dec23.234457.16810@decus> Date: 23 Dec 96 23:44:57 AEST References: Organization: DECUS Australia Lines: 44 Xref: news.columbia.edu comp.os.rsts:722 In article , "John A. Santos" writes: > On Mon, 16 Dec 1996, Andrew Newsome wrote: > >> My colleague & I are trying to extract data from a PDP11 running >> RSTS Version 9. The machine has a quarter inch Tape only QIC 02. >>...[deletion] >> -- >> > The Columbia site contains both binary and "hexified" versions of the > RSTS/E Kermit programs. The "hexified" version is the binary .TSK file > run through a program that converts it to a format consisting only of > printable ASCII 7-bit characters (and spaces and CRLF's). It should be > possible to download this as a pure text file, by, for example downloading > them to a PC (or anything else that supports Kermit, including VMS, UNIX, > or another RSTS/E, RT-11 or RSX system), and then log into > the RSTS/E system from the PC, run PIP on the RSTS/E system, and send it > the .HEX file. >...[another deletion] > > - John Santos -- Thanks John for that informative and concise update on RSTS KERMIT. My problem is somewhat stranger. I have a client currently trying to update from RSTS/E v7.07 on an 11/44 with RK06s (no tapes), to RSTS/E v9.6 on an 11/73 (with K11 and KERMIT). I have been looking for an older version of KERMIT to run under v7.07 which may or may not have Multiple Private Delimiters, etc. I guess I am looking for confirmation that Kermit would NOT run on any RSTS/E version before v7.2 (if my reading of the DECUS catalog notes, etc is correct). On thinking about your advice earlier, I think I might be able to use HEX and DEHEX to copy a batch of .TSK and .DAT files. Is this a feasible solution if Kermit is not available. Regards, John G. (aka 'megaJOHN') .. v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v- John Geremin, PDP-11 Support Consultant, MEGATRONICS, 018-406 365. John Geremin, Treasurer, Australian COMPUTER MUSEUM Society Inc. -^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^ 23-Jan-97 1:38:53-GMT,3449;000000000011 Received: from dbit.dbit.com (dbit.dbit.com [199.181.141.53]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA16668 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 20:38:52 -0500 (EST) Received: (from wilson@localhost) by dbit.dbit.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) id UAA18014 for fdc@kermit.columbia.edu; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 20:39:12 -0500 Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 20:39:12 -0500 From: John Wilson Message-Id: <199701230139.UAA18014@dbit.dbit.com> To: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Subject: Attributes packets with sliding windows Sorry to bother you, if you have time I have a dumb question whose answer I can't find in any of the docs: What is the correct way to handle the boundary between A packets and D packets when sliding windows are active? The sliding windows section in KPROTO.DOC makes no mention of attribute packets in its list of the 5 stages of sending a file. It seems to me that either the A packets count as part of the transfer initialization so they should proceed in stop 'n wait mode, or else they count sort of like file data (since they come after the F packet) and should participate in the sliding windows deal (even though of course they aren't really written to disk during a window turn). If A packets are handled stop/wait style then at least in my implementation, that means I would need the ability to "look ahead" one packet to see whether the next one is another A packet or whether it's time to fire up the routine that does all the juggling with the window table, which would be an ugly hack. On the other hand, including the A packets in the sliding windows means having something other that just D packets in the window table, which seems a little inelegant. Please enlighten me! FYI my application is upgrading my ancient (original version started 11/84) server-only Kermit for PDP-11/RT-11 to handle sliding windows and long packets (K11 apparently still has no SWC and anyway I couldn't get it to work on my 11/34a with RT-11 V4.0). The plan then is to have a conditional assembly that produces a stand-alone server-only Kermit that runs on bare hardware and knows how to talk to all the common disk controllers itself so that users can download raw disk images for use with PDP-11 emulators (I've written one which I plan to release commercially Real Soon Now) in case their available Kermit/OS combination (if any) doesn't provide a way to read disks in non-file-structured mode -- AFAIK there isn't even a Kermit available for MUMPS, not surprising considering it has no concept of files. I also wanted to ask, is anyone already working on upgrading Kermit-20? A couple of years ago I did some work on it (using Mark Crispin's 2020 via the net) to make it transmit (but not receive) attribute packets, since that's only half the job I didn't bother to submit my changes to you, but now that XKL is giving out demo accounts I was thinking of finishing the job (Crispin no longer has his machine accessible to the net and anyway assembling K20 on a 2020 takes half an hour!). But not if someone else is already doing it! As I remember it needs a lot of work, I believe it didn't bother to distinguish between parameters that were set by the user, and parameters that resulted from the SEND-INIT/ACK negotiation, so user commands tended to be permanently forgotten if a remote system countermanded them. Thanks, John Wilson (formerly wilsonj@rpi.edu, I've bugged you before) 23-Jan-97 16:37:33-GMT,4112;000000000001 Received: (from fdc@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA08948; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 11:37:26 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 97 11:37:26 EST From: Frank da Cruz To: John Wilson Subject: Re: Attributes packets with sliding windows In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 22 Jan 1997 20:39:12 -0500 Cc: John Santos , Billy Youdelman Message-ID: > Sorry to bother you, if you have time I have a dumb question whose answer I > can't find in any of the docs: > > What is the correct way to handle the boundary between A packets and D > packets when sliding windows are active? > Only data packets are windowed. That's because the file receiver might refuse a file based on an attribute, and it would be silly if the receiver didn't find out about it until after sending a windowful of data packets. > The sliding windows section in > KPROTO.DOC makes no mention of attribute packets in its list of the 5 > stages of sending a file. > KPROTO.DOC is pretty ancient. The Kermit book is a better spec. > If A packets are handled stop/wait style then at least in my implementation, > that means I would need the ability to "look ahead" one packet... > Exactly. You need a special case for the first data packet. The protocol also now defines an "end of attributes" attribute ("@") that appears as the final attribute in the final attribute packet, but it is not universally used so you should not depend on it. > FYI my application is upgrading my ancient (original version started 11/84) > server-only Kermit for PDP-11/RT-11 to handle sliding windows and long > packets (K11 apparently still has no SWC and anyway I couldn't get it to > work on my 11/34a with RT-11 V4.0). The plan then is to have a conditional > assembly that produces a stand-alone server-only Kermit that runs on bare > hardware and knows how to talk to all the common disk controllers itself so > that users can download raw disk images for use with PDP-11 emulators (I've > written one which I plan to release commercially Real Soon Now) in case > their available Kermit/OS combination (if any) doesn't provide a way to read > disks in non-file-structured mode -- AFAIK there isn't even a Kermit > available for MUMPS, not surprising considering it has no concept of files. > This is very interesting -- unlike your PDP-11 emulator, I assume your Kermit code will be given back to us as an upgrade to the current PDP-11 version(s)? Anyway, I wish you had contacted me earlier about this because at least two other people have been working on PDP-11 Kermit and there has probably been a lot of unnecessary duplication of effort. I'm cc'ing them on this in hopes you will all get together and merge your stuff. (Note: Brian Nelson is out of the picture now.) > I also wanted to ask, is anyone already working on upgrading Kermit-20? > Until you sent this message, I was unaware that anybody had touched it since January 1988 (when our last DEC-20 was turned off). > A couple of years ago I did some work on it (using Mark Crispin's 2020 via > the net) to make it transmit (but not receive) attribute packets, since > that's only half the job I didn't bother to submit my changes to you, but > now that XKL is giving out demo accounts... > What is XKL? > I was thinking of finishing the job (Crispin no longer has his machine > accessible to the net and anyway assembling K20 on a 2020 takes half an > hour!). But not if someone else is already doing it! > Don't worry -- there's little chance of that. > As I remember it > needs a lot of work, I believe it didn't bother to distinguish between > parameters that were set by the user, and parameters that resulted from the > SEND-INIT/ACK negotiation, so user commands tended to be permanently > forgotten if a remote system countermanded them. > Right -- that sort of thing needs a lot of attention. It can become very confusing. > Thanks, John Wilson (formerly wilsonj@rpi.edu, I've bugged you before) > About what? :-) - Frank 23-Jan-97 21:44:08-GMT,6888;000000000001 Received: from cello.Opus1.COM (Cello.Opus1.COM [192.245.12.7]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA11898 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 16:44:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from Opus1.COM by Opus1.COM (PMDF V5.1-5 #9830) id <01IEJVT3E80WCB96DR@Opus1.COM> for fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 14:44:00 MST Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 14:43:18 -0700 (MST) From: billy@MIX.COM Subject: Re: Attributes packets with sliding windows In-reply-to: "Message from FdC dated Thu, 23 Jan 1997 11:37:26 -0500 (EST)" Sender: Billy@MIX.COM To: John Wilson Cc: Frank da Cruz , John Santos , Billy Youdelman Message-id: <01IEK12GYBDCCB96DR@Opus1.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Hi - > > FYI my application is upgrading my ancient (original version started 11/84) > > server-only Kermit for PDP-11/RT-11 to handle sliding windows and long > > packets (K11 apparently still has no SWC and anyway I couldn't get it to > > work on my 11/34a with RT-11 V4.0). I'm one of the two other people mentioned are working on the PDP-11 Kermit (KRT). I haven't done sliding windows yet as that's a fairly big job and I've been somewhat overloaded with work for almost a year now. I'll append a news article regarding this that I think will be useful to you which I saved in pereperation for this. As for RT-11 V4, KRT will run under the FB monitor and there is another older Kermit (kermit.columbia.edu:/kermit/b/rtk*) that only runs under the SJ monitor. RTK uses in-line code to talk to the serial interface only - it doesn't use the console port. KRT does and also comes with its own KM (Kermit Modem) comm handler. > > in case > > their available Kermit/OS combination (if any) doesn't provide a way to read > > disks in non-file-structured mode KRT can be patched to do this - it wouldn't be very difficult. > [...] at least two > other people have been working on PDP-11 Kermit and there has probably been a > lot of unnecessary duplication of effort. I'm cc'ing them on this in hopes > you will all get together and merge your stuff. I'd be interested in what you do for sliding windows and then if there's any help I can offer please feel free to ask. Regards, Billy Youdelman Maintainer of the RT-11 KRT Kermit Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems Subject: Re: will zmodem do sliding window? >From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Date: 29 Mar 93 19:54:13 MDT Organization: Utah State University In article <733368262snz@genesis.demon.co.uk>, fred@genesis.demon.co.uk (Lawrence Kirby) writes: > In article pdh@netcom.com writes: > >>There is also a -w option that specifies a window size in bytes. I've >>also tried this with no particular apparent effect. The problems I am >>having do not seem to be corrected by this, and since I believe a true >>sliding window scheme with well selected window size and count will solve >>my problems, I suspect that -w also does not do sliding window. Does >>anyone know what it does? > > Yes, it should do. It certainly does with the sz I have. If I set it to about > 3K I get a full speed transfer which works over links which don't support flow > control and otherwise fail in ZMODEM's default mode. > >>The problem I am having is that sz never waits for any acknoledgement >>except the end of file. It blasts data out until the network buffers >>are full (sometimes over 100K). Once any error occurs on the line (and >>they do every now and then for reasons not certainly determined yet), >>the receiving program requests a resend. The problem with the zmodem >>protocol seems to be that all the buffered data following the bad packet >>(or subpacket) is discarded (bad idea) until the requested resend shows >>up. The data that was discarded is sent again from that point (why?). >>I've scripted sz and seen this behaviour. > > Yes, ZMODEM does this - it greatly simplifies the protocol. On an error the > receiver simply has to tell the sender what point in the file to continue from. > Kermit sliding windows does things the way you want but they had to write > their own language to generate all of the necessary state transitions! Well, not really. The basic code was done for MS-DOS Kermit and that's in assembler. C Kermit uses a cutdown version of LEX, named Wart, which is consistent with C Kermit's design and the s/w protocol is taken from MSK. There are two classical sliding windows algorithms: "go back to N" and "selective repeat." The former says go back to the last good pkt and repeat from the next, which means the receiver can get by with one buffer if it's fast enough. This works ok on low error rate channels, as noted below. Selective repeat accepts packets out of order and fills in holes as necessary. The receiver needs a window's worth of buffers and the strategy is strong when the wire is weak. MSK and CK use selective repeat. Selective repeat is not at all difficult, once one figures out a proper approach, but that figuring out discourages many writers. The algorithm in the book "Kermit, a file transfer protocol" by Frank da Cruz is NOT what we use today, though it can interoperate with it. I like to think that we use a rather good implementation of selective repeat, but I'm biased. Variations exist, such as tell me only if things go wrong, and tell me only now and then, both attempting to reduce time to prepare ACKs (small actually). These sparse-ACK schemes require much resending when errors occur. > ZMODEM is designed to work over low latency and/or low error rate links. > Given that it does a good job. > >>Is there any way I can get this fixed? Or is the zmodem protocol >>hopelessly defective for these highly buffered data paths? > > Why are you getting errors in these highly buffered data paths? > >>It seems to me that the best solution would be a sliding window scheme >>where N packets are sent, and the sender waits until the first one is >>acknowledged. Once the first is acknowledged, then the next packet is >>sent. The number of packets ever in the pipe is N, and the size of the >>packets should also be selectable. I would want to tune these to about >>N=8 and L=1024 for the first attempt. Try this with Kermits. The MSK coming out shortly has increased capacity to use up to 31 window slots and packets up to 9KB, all at once if you have the memory, so you can fill most pipelines. C Kermit can be commanded to the same capacity. They do what you describe above. Joe D. >>So, should I spend my time trying to get the zmodem programs to work, >>or should I spend my time developing a replacement protocol? > > ZMODEM is quite capable of doing this. Whether your implementation can be > told to do it is another matter. 23-Jan-97 19:00:34-GMT,3971;000000000015 Received: from dbit.dbit.com (dbit.dbit.com [199.181.141.53]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA07443 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 14:00:32 -0500 (EST) Received: (from wilson@localhost) by dbit.dbit.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) id NAA18540; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 13:59:43 -0500 Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 13:59:43 -0500 From: John Wilson Message-Id: <199701231859.NAA18540@dbit.dbit.com> To: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu, wilson@dbit.dbit.com Subject: Re: Attributes packets with sliding windows Cc: billy@mix.com, john@egh.com (whoops, sorry about that first msg, I was shooting for ^C and hit ^D) >> If A packets are handled stop/wait style then at least in my implementation, >> that means I would need the ability to "look ahead" one packet... >> >Exactly. You need a special case for the first data packet. The protocol also >now defines an "end of attributes" attribute ("@") that appears as the final >attribute in the final attribute packet, but it is not universally used so you >should not depend on it. The answer I was looking for ... thanks! Another quickie -- does MAXLX1/MAXLX2 from the SEND-INIT exchange specify the maximum LENX1/LENX2 value, or the actual max packet length (which is 6 bytes longer due to the header)? I'm assuming it's LENX1/LENX2 (since that's consistant with MAXL specifying the max LEN value even though a regular packet is one byte longer) and that doesn't seem to annoy MS-Kermit, but I want to make sure I'm doing it right. >This is very interesting -- unlike your PDP-11 emulator, I assume your Kermit >code will be given back to us as an upgrade to the current PDP-11 version(s)? >Anyway, I wish you had contacted me earlier about this because at least two >other people have been working on PDP-11 Kermit and there has probably been a >lot of unnecessary duplication of effort. I'm cc'ing them on this in hopes >you will all get together and merge your stuff. (Note: Brian Nelson is out of >the picture now.) I assumed you wouldn't want my code because it has nothing at all to do with K11 or KRT (and except for SWC has a tiny subset of their features), it's an outgrowth of Kermits I wrote on my own for RT-11 and RSTS/E in the mid-80s. The last thing anyone needs is *another* "official" Kermit for the PDP-11! So I'm just targeting the specific cases of running stand-alone and accessing non-file-structured devices since those are my main problems in life, you wouldn't believe some of the flips & twists people have had to do to get bootable disk images. Everyone is welcome to any code that might be useful though, once I've finished all the nasty stuff (like using extended memory and/or swap files for cases when SWC+LONGP results in more buffers than will fit in memory) I'll be putting it up in ftp://ftp.dbit.com/pub/pdp11/rt11. >What is XKL? XKL is Len Bosack's (former Cisco guy) company in Redmond WA that builds the ToaD-1, which is the end-all PDP-10 clone. Faster than a KL10 (how much depends on whom you ask), 4 ethernet ports, I forget how many SCSI channels, and they've done all kinds of work on upgrading TOPS-20 and porting useful stuff to it. But the copy of K20 on their demo machine looks untouched. >> Thanks, John Wilson (formerly wilsonj@rpi.edu, I've bugged you before) >> >About what? :-) More pesky protocol questions, in '93 I got about halfway through writing a new PDP-10 Kermit for ITS (the bizarre one it has is written in Lisp and doesn't work at all, at least on the machine I had running), before the company I was working for self-destructed and their KS10 got shut down (the disk drive was my own though, so one of these days...), and also did some work on a multithreaded background Kermit for DOS (which you didn't like because MS-Kermit already exists and is very cool). Anyway I wanted to give you a chance to ignore me in case I was enough of a pest last time to stick in your memory! :-) John Wilson 11-Jul-97 19:28:08-GMT,5187;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu (mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.35.143]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA14106 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 15:28:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cello.Opus1.COM (Cello.Opus1.COM [192.245.12.7]) by mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA02533 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 15:27:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Opus1.COM by Opus1.COM (PMDF V5.1-7 #9830) id <01IL3XVBPNPSA777FK@Opus1.COM> for kermit-support@columbia.edu; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 12:27:47 MST Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 12:15:13 -0700 (MST) From: billy@MIX.COM Subject: Re: Kermit for micro/rsx v3.1 base level 24C In-reply-to: "Your message dated Fri, 11 Jul 1997 15:04:03 -0400 (EDT)" Sender: Billy@MIX.COM To: k.r.hallam@bristol.ac.uk Cc: kermit-support@columbia.edu, billy@MIX.COM Message-id: <01IL3ZJYDLXOA777FK@Opus1.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Hi - > > He directed me to > > ftp://ftp.columbia.edu/kermit/b/, where I became overwhelmed by the > > choice of files to download. I was looking for k11pos.tsk... > > > That might be for P/OS but not RSX. Or maybe not. This probably is P/OS specific. Having written a communications handler (driver) for this hardware and RT-11 I can at least say that part of the hardware is completely different from anything found in a 'real' PDP-11. > Nothing is ever as simple as we'd like it to be. As you can see, we have > quite a lot of Kermit-11 binaries in the kermit/bin area. The most sense I > have ever been able to make out of them is as follows (from the kermit/bin > READ.ME file): > k11.tsk - PDP-11 Kermit 3.60 for RSTS/E 8.0 or later > k11nrs.tsk - Ditto, but not linked with RMSRES > k11id.tsk - Ditto, but uses I&D space > k11idm.tsk - PDP-11 Kermit 3.60 for RSX11M+ or Micro/RSX > k11pos.tsk - PDP-11 Kermit 3.60 for RSX11M+, Micro/RSX, or P/OS > k11rsx.tsk - PDP-11 Kermit 3.60 for RSX, not linked with RMSRES > k11sml.tsk - PDP-11 Kermit 3.60 RSX11M, small executable, tightly overlaid > k11xm.sav - PDP-11 Kermit 3.60 for RT11 XM and TSX+ There are also .odl files for RSX which I believe are required to install and/or use the actual task images. Unfortunately MY RSX knowledge is very limited. I believe you'll need either k11rsx.tsx or k11sml.tsx, depending on how much memory you have available to load the image and run it. > I'd love to see the RSX version updated, and there is definitely some strong > (but sporadic) interest in having a fixed-up and updated version, but to date > nobody has been able to do the job. I'm copying this to the DEC newsgroup > in case it turns up any hitherto unknown RSX aficionados. I believe Johnny Billquist at Upsala University in Sweeden is working on an RSX Kermit - I don't have his email address handy but he does read the alt.sys.pdp11 and vmsnet.pdp-11 newsgroups and should be easy to find there. I'm also appending my followup to the news article discussing this. Regards, Billy Youdelman Maintainer of the RT-11 Kermit ============================== Path: MIX.COM!sluggy Subject: Re: PC ---> PDP-11 micro/RSX problems From: billy@mix.com Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc References: <33C62D2E.67B4@bristol.ac.uk> Organization: Billy's Place k.r.hallam@bristol.ac.uk writes: > Does anyone have any knowledge about using KERMIT-11 (k11pos T3.50, 2nd. > April 1986 (long packet support - whatever that means!), under > micro/RSX This is a somewhat older version of Kermit-11 - it may be the newer one (T3.60) will do better here. This is available by anonymous ftp from kermit.columbia.edu in the kermit/b directory. If getting it on to the PDP-11 is a problem you may need to transfer and then decode a hex encoded version of the K11 image. Instructions for doing this are in a file in the same directory named krthex.mac - this concerns RT-11 so you'll need to determine how to get PIP (a utility program) to accept input from the terminal (a rather minor detail). The hex encoded images have the file extension .hex - also k11pos is I believe for the Pro-300 series of PC-type systems DEC built in the mid-1980s so it may be some other assembly of Kermit-11 would do better on a real PDP-11. I've been maintaining and updating the RT-11 version of this for some years now and recall various comments in the code regarding problems with things in RSX changing as new versions of that were released. You'll likely be able to find some people familiar with RSX in the alt.sys.pdp11 and vmsnet.pdp-11 newsgroups. In particular Johnny Billquist at Upsala University in Sweeden may be familiar with what will run properly in this case, or know what is necessary to fix it. Long packet support means this Kermit is capable of using packets greater than 94 bytes long. I beleive the upper limit in the version you have is 600 bytes. This isn't much by today's standards but every little bit helps. To enable use of long packets on Kermit-11 you'll need to SET RECEIVE PACKET-LENGTH 600. Billy Y.. 12-Jul-97 16:59:28-GMT,3245;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: (from fdc@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA28852 for fdc; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 12:59:28 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 12:59:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Frank da Cruz Message-Id: <199707121659.MAA28852@watsun.cc.columbia.edu> To: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!howland.erols.net!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!alph02.triumf.ca!shoppa From: shoppa@alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc,vmsnet.pdp-11,alt.sys.pdp11 Subject: Re: Kermit for micro/rsx v3.1 base level 24C Date: 12 Jul 1997 16:18:15 GMT Organization: TRIUMF, Canada's National Meson Facility Lines: 46 Message-ID: <5q8ao7$mv9$1@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca> References: <17:37:58> <+0100> NNTP-Posting-Host: alph02.triumf.ca Xref: news.columbia.edu comp.protocols.kermit.misc:7321 vmsnet.pdp-11:7851 alt.sys.pdp11:2409 In article , Kermit Software Support wrote: >Nothing is ever as simple as we'd like it to be. As you can see, we have >quite a lot of Kermit-11 binaries in the kermit/bin area. The most sense I >have ever been able to make out of them is as follows (from the kermit/bin >READ.ME file): > > k11.tsk - PDP-11 Kermit 3.60 for RSTS/E 8.0 or later > k11nrs.tsk - Ditto, but not linked with RMSRES > k11id.tsk - Ditto, but uses I&D space > k11idm.tsk - PDP-11 Kermit 3.60 for RSX11M+ or Micro/RSX > k11pos.tsk - PDP-11 Kermit 3.60 for RSX11M+, Micro/RSX, or P/OS > k11rsx.tsk - PDP-11 Kermit 3.60 for RSX, not linked with RMSRES > k11sml.tsk - PDP-11 Kermit 3.60 RSX11M, small executable, tightly overlaid > k11xm.sav - PDP-11 Kermit 3.60 for RT11 XM and TSX+ > >(Note: of these, only the RSX versions are current -- there are new sets of >files for RT and RSTS.) > >I'd love to see the RSX version updated, and there is definitely some strong >(but sporadic) interest in having a fixed-up and updated version, but to date >nobody has been able to do the job. I'm copying this to the DEC newsgroup >in case it turns up any hitherto unknown RSX aficionados. I've occasionally thought about going in and making the improvements myself, but the main thing that has held me back is that I have access to only a few RSX11M and 11M+ versions, none of which is particularly recent, so it'd be difficult for me to build any binaries which I could guarantee to work on other systems. At one time wasn't there a IAS binary available, too? Another obstacle for me is that I know that I'd never do as good a job as Billy Yodelman's been doing in maintaining and upgrading KRT for RT-11 and (now) RSTS. Johnny Billquist has made important patches to the RSX version of K11, and the source code patches are available by anonymous ftp from ftp.update.uu.se in /pub/pdp11. I don't know if he has any binaries available for ftp. The most common request I receive for RSX Kermit is for a version that runs on RSX-11M V3.0 or thereabouts. It seems that all of the existing K11 RSX implementations depend on features that came out about the time of RSX-11M V4.0. Tim. (shoppa@triumf.ca) 14-Jul-97 14:57:45-GMT,2827;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: (from fdc@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA08882; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 10:53:59 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 10:53:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Frank da Cruz Message-Id: <199707141453.KAA08882@watsun.cc.columbia.edu> To: steve@discus.lincoln.ac.nz Subject: Re: Kermit for micro/rsx v3.1 base level 24C Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc,vmsnet.pdp-11,alt.sys.pdp11 In-Reply-To: <33CA3666.22FB73C7@discus.lincoln.ac.nz> References: <17:37:58> <+0100> <5q8ao7$mv9$1@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca> Organization: Columbia University Cc: Billy Youdelman , John Santos cc: post-comp.protocols.kermit.misc@clark.zippo.com, post-vmsnet.pdp-11@clark.zippo.com, post-alt.sys.pdp11@clark.zippo.com In article <33CA3666.22FB73C7@discus.lincoln.ac.nz> you write: : I have a dual unibus pdp11/34 running rsx11M+ v3.?, : with macro & fortran available... : Kermit-11 is written in Macro-11 with some accompanying utilities in Fortran. : as a result I have some current familiarity with writing RSX11M+ : device drivers. : I would love to get kermit running on our machine (older rsx), : how can I help. : It's a bit complicated. The last consistent source code for all PDP-11 OSs was Kermit-11 T3.60, and this is also the last version that supported RSX at all: ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/b/k11*.* RSX 3.x was *never* supported -- I recall this being an issue about 15 years ago. The position of the original K11 author, Brian Nelson, in the mid-1980s, was that sites should keep their DEC OS's up to date. Even by then, RSX 3.x was probably about 10 years old. Since Brian left the scene, Billy Youdelman picked up the RT-11 / TSX+ version, and the sources diverged. Billy's version (from 1993) is in: ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/b/krt*.* Then John Santos picked up the cudgel on behalf of RSTS/E and produced an update of Billy's code that is supposed to support both RT/TSX and RSTS: ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/test/pdp11/krt*.* These have been sitting there since October 1996, and I'm not sure to what extent we can consider them a replacement for Billy's 1993 version. Do they still work in RT-11 and TSX+? Some feedback would be useful. I'd say the order of business *should* be: 1. Let's get John's version out of test and replace Billy's version with it, to bring the number of source sets down to two. 2. Let's get the result working on RSX 4.0 and later (and, if it matters) IAS. 3. Then let's see if we can also make it work on RSX < 4.0. Maybe steps 2 and 3 can be merged -- I really do not know what special features of RSX are needed by K11. Or is it just that it requires RMS? - Frank 14-Jul-97 19:01:46-GMT,2645;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from cello.Opus1.COM (Cello.Opus1.COM [192.245.12.7]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA00188 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 15:01:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Opus1.COM by Opus1.COM (PMDF V5.1-7 #9830) id <01IL84EYT840A775M9@Opus1.COM> for fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:01:30 MST Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 11:54:05 -0700 (MST) From: billy@MIX.COM Subject: Re: Kermit for micro/rsx v3.1 base level 24C In-reply-to: "Your message dated Mon, 14 Jul 1997 10:53:59 -0400 (EDT)" <199707141453.KAA08882@watsun.cc.columbia.edu> Sender: Billy@MIX.COM To: Frank da Cruz Cc: steve@discus.lincoln.ac.nz, Billy Youdelman , John Santos , post-comp.protocols.kermit.misc@clark.zippo.com, post-vmsnet.pdp-11@clark.zippo.com, post-alt.sys.pdp11@clark.zippo.com Message-id: <01IL85IEDSWOA775M9@Opus1.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII References: <5q8ao7$mv9$1@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca> <33CA3666.22FB73C7@discus.lincoln.ac.nz> Frank da Cruz writes: > Then John Santos picked up the cudgel on behalf of RSTS/E and produced > an update of Billy's code that is supposed to support both RT/TSX and RSTS: > ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/test/pdp11/krt*.* > These have been sitting there since October 1996, and I'm not sure to > what extent we can consider them a replacement for Billy's 1993 version. > Do they still work in RT-11 and TSX+? Some feedback would be useful. Yes, definitely - conditional assembly can be done for either RT-11/TSX or RSTS. And then I'm almost done with another RT-11 update - it is about a month away at the longest now. A large part of this is already in the Oct. 1966 version, most of what remains are documentation and help file updates. > I'd say the order of business *should* be: > 1. Let's get John's version out of test and replace Billy's version > with it, to bring the number of source sets down to two. This works fine for me, just let me finish up the current version, which will not take very long to complete. > 2. Let's get the result working on RSX 4.0 and later (and, if it > matters) IAS. I'd be happy to help with this - I don't know much of RSX but I do know K11 pretty well. I'd also suggest contacting Johnny Billquist (sorry I didn't have this address available when I last wrote) who is very good with RSX and also has expressed an interest in working on Kermit. Billy Y.. 15-Jul-97 14:56:50-GMT,2361;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: (from fdc@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA27291 for fdc; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 10:56:50 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 10:56:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Frank da Cruz Message-Id: <199707151456.KAA27291@watsun.cc.columbia.edu> To: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc,vmsnet.pdp-11,alt.sys.pdp11 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.indiana.edu!chi-news.cic.net!207.22.81.9!europa.clark.net!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!delos.dra.hmg.gb!server1.netnews.ja.net!warwick!bris.ac.uk!not-for-mail From: phkrh@zeus.bris.ac.uk (K R. Hallam) Subject: Re: Kermit for micro/rsx v3.1 base level 24C X-Nntp-Posting-Host: zeus.bris.ac.uk Message-ID: Followup-To: comp.protocols.kermit.misc,vmsnet.pdp-11,alt.sys.pdp11 Sender: usenet@fsa.bris.ac.uk (Usenet) Organization: University of Bristol, England X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 950824BETA PL0] References: <17:37:58> <+0100> <5q8ao7$mv9$1@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca> <33CA3666.22FB73C7@discus.lincoln.ac.nz> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 12:53:41 GMT Lines: 20 Xref: news.columbia.edu comp.protocols.kermit.misc:7334 vmsnet.pdp-11:7861 alt.sys.pdp11:2426 Dear All, Just a brief note to say that I sorted out my problems. Guido in Rome (from the surface science e-mail list) gave me sufficient instructions and an mscustom.ini file for my pc version to get the GET command on the PDP working (he used SEND from the pc but that didn't work for me - I know not why). Having got everything going, I could then kermit the newer kermit onto the PDP, and it still worked! In case it matters to anyone, I just downloaded k11pos.tsk from ftp://ftp.columbia.edu/kermit/bin/ (I think it was) (Thankyou for the pointer to the right directory) and it ran o.k on its own once I had got it onto the PDP. Now I've shown I can get my data going to and fro, all I need is a bigger hard disc and a network connection and....... Keith -- Dr. Keith R. Hallam University of Bristol, Interface Analysis Centre, Oldbury House, 121, St. Michael's Hill, Bristol, BS2 8BS, England Telephone: + 44 (0)117 925 5666 | E-mail: k.r.hallam@bristol.ac.uk Facsimile: + 44 (0)117 925 5646 | URL: http://zeus.bris.ac.uk/~phkrh/ 22-Jul-97 16:51:38-GMT,3416;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: (from fdc@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA05200 for fdc; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 12:51:38 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 12:51:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Frank da Cruz Message-Id: <199707221651.MAA05200@watsun.cc.columbia.edu> To: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!gondor!newshub1.wanet.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!128.230.129.112!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!baron.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!news.wizvax.net!dbit.com!wilson From: wilson@dbit.com (John Wilson) Newsgroups: vmsnet.pdp-11,alt.sys.pdp11,comp.os.rsts,comp.emulators.misc Subject: Ersatz-11 Demo V2.0 Date: 21 Jul 1997 02:44:15 GMT Organization: D Bit, Troy, NY Lines: 52 Message-ID: <5quidv$uvn$1@news.wizvax.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: dbit.dbit.com Xref: news.columbia.edu vmsnet.pdp-11:7885 alt.sys.pdp11:2456 comp.os.rsts:888 comp.emulators.misc:35227 At long last, V2.0 of the Ersatz-11 Demo is finally ready! Ersatz-11 (a.k.a. E11) is a PDP-11 emulator that runs on 80x86 machines under DOS (or in a Windows DOS box), and emulates a range of PDP-11 models. On a midrange Pentium, it runs at approximately twice the speed of a PDP-11/93; the exact speed depends on the application. The demo version is available from FTP.DBIT.COM in directory /pub/e11. It may be used for unlimited personal/hobby use, commercial use is limited to a 30-day evaluation period. Major enhancements since the previous version (V1.1A): * Emulated CPU models extended to include PDP-11/24, PDP-11/44, PDP-11/45, PDP-11/70, PDP-11/94, in addition to the PDP-11/34a and PDP-11/40 emulation already present in V1.1A. This includes 22-bit addressing with or without the Unibus map, but since the Demo version runs in real mode there is a practical limit of around 350-400 KB of PDP-11 memory. * RXT11+RX01, RK11D+RK02/RK05, RH11/RH70+RS03/RS04, TC11+TU56, TM11+TU10, TA11+TU60, RH11/RH70+TM03+TE16/TU45/TU77 device emulations added. All disks and tapes now have settable CSR/vector addresses. * Floppy disk driver now works with all emulated disks (and DECtape), and has been extended to support RX23, RX24, RX26, RX33, RX50, DS RX50, and Russian "MY:" disks (in addition to the existing RX01/02/03 support). * Completely definable keyboard; every possible keypress or keyrelease (even shift keys) may have a user-defined key script bound to it, to support customization and/or non-English keyboard layouts. Major disadvantages vs. the previous version (V1.1A): * Commercial use limited to 30-day evaluation period; this restriction is of course NOT retroactive, so commercial users may still use V1.1A without any time limit. * Total size of all disk image files that may be MOUNTed at once is limited to 32 MB. Again, V1.1A did not have this limitation so continue using it if this limit is too low. * No plain ASCII version of the user's manual (just Postscript). Yet. This version was a long time coming, almost every part of E11 has had a major rewrite and the code is far more robust and extendable than it used to be. Up to 68,000 lines of source and still growing fast! Anyway please let me know what you think, I'm eager to add more features and take care of any bugs that crop up as quickly as possible. John Wilson D Bit http://www.dbit.com 22-Jul-97 19:55:19-GMT,1296;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: (from fdc@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA12563; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 15:49:56 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 97 15:49:55 EDT From: Frank da Cruz To: Billy Youdelman Subject: [Jennifer Jackson : Kermit for RSX-11 operating system] Message-ID: My goodness, here we go again with Kermit for RSX 3-point-something... What is it, a 20th anniversary celebration or something? I'm still not sure I understand the current situation -- I thought that K11 simply did not work on RSX 3.x, but the last guy said he downloaded K11POS.TSK and it did work??? - Frank Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 15:44:54 -0500 From: Jennifer Jackson Subject: Kermit for RSX-11 operating system Sirs, I am trying to locate the following: Kermit for an RSX-11M operating system, Version 3.1 Baseline 26 on a 9 track tape 1600 BPI with a block size of 2048. This is for use in the Gyroscope repair facility at Robins AFB and the end users will be the US Government. Please let me know if this is avialable or can be custom ordered and, if so, the cost of such an order. Jennifer Jackson Electronics Engineer WR-ALC/TINPL 22-Jul-97 19:47:08-GMT,1444;000000000401 Return-Path: Received: from mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu (mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.35.143]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA12104 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 15:47:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail1y-int.prodigy.net (mail1y-ext.prodigy.net [198.83.19.113]) by mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA17771 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 15:46:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tinpl12.robins.af.mil ([137.244.196.68]) by mail1y-int.prodigy.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA56476 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 15:44:37 -0400 Message-ID: <33D51BC6.3A14@prodigy.net> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 15:44:54 -0500 From: Jennifer Jackson Reply-To: jljackson@prodigy.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: kermit@columbia.edu Subject: Kermit for RSX-11 operating system Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sirs, I am trying to locate the following: Kermit for an RSX-11M operating system, Version 3.1 Baseline 26 on a 9 track tape 1600 BPI with a block size of 2048. This is for use in the Gyroscope repair facility at Robins AFB and the end users will be the US Government. Please let me know if this is avialable or can be custom ordered and, if so, the cost of such an order. Jennifer Jackson Electronics Engineer WR-ALC/TINPL 22-Jul-97 20:26:11-GMT,2683;000000000005 Return-Path: Received: from cello.Opus1.COM (Cello.Opus1.COM [192.245.12.7]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA19434 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 16:24:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Opus1.COM by Opus1.COM (PMDF V5.1-7 #9830) id <01ILJE1R83W0AJKYG3@Opus1.COM> for fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 13:23:47 MST Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 13:04:58 -0700 (MST) From: billy@MIX.COM Subject: Re: [Jennifer Jackson : Kermit for RSX-11 operating system] In-reply-to: "Your message dated Tue, 22 Jul 1997 15:49:55 -0400 (EDT)" Sender: Billy@MIX.COM To: Frank da Cruz Cc: Billy Youdelman Message-id: <01ILJEQ6PPSCAJKYG3@Opus1.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Hi - > My goodness, here we go again with Kermit for RSX 3-point-something... > What is it, a 20th anniversary celebration or something? I'm still not sure > I understand the current situation -- I thought that K11 simply did not work > on RSX 3.x, but the last guy said he downloaded K11POS.TSK and it did work??? I'm not sure how much of it worked - it may be some of the more basic functions such as communicating via the PDP-11 console terminal port will work, and in many cases this is enough to get the job done, in that a pc type system running Kermit can be connected to the PDP-11 and function as the console terminal, allowing files to be easily transferred by simply starting Kermit on the PDP-11. My experience has been this is what 90%+ of the users of these lab or process control systems would prefer anyway - it doesn't require adding a serial interface, finding a comm driver for that, etc. This is also not as demanding as to trying to run a task-scheduled terminal emulator which may require things like timer support to be sysgenned into RSX itself (without which it would either hang or race, depending on how it's written) and is defninitely worth a try in this case. Regards, Billy Y.. > Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 15:44:54 -0500 > From: Jennifer Jackson > Subject: Kermit for RSX-11 operating system > Sirs, > I am trying to locate the following: > Kermit for an RSX-11M operating system, Version 3.1 Baseline 26 > on a 9 track tape 1600 BPI with a block size of 2048. > This is for use in the Gyroscope repair facility at Robins AFB and the > end users will be the US Government. > Please let me know if this is avialable or can be custom ordered and, if > so, the cost of such an order. > Jennifer Jackson > Electronics Engineer > WR-ALC/TINPL 24-Jul-97 14:52:45-GMT,3242;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: (from fdc@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA05259; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 10:51:27 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 97 10:51:26 EDT From: Frank da Cruz To: jljackson@prodigy.net Subject: Re: Kermit for RSX-11 operating system In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 22 Jul 1997 15:44:54 -0500 Cc: kermit-support@watsun.cc.columbia.edu, Billy Youdelman , k.r.hallam@bristol.ac.uk Message-ID: > I am trying to locate the following: > > Kermit for an RSX-11M operating system, Version 3.1 Baseline 26 > on a 9 track tape 1600 BPI with a block size of 2048. > I'm not sure that we can meet your requirements. First of all, there has never been a version of Kermit for RSX versions prior to 4. Version 3 is, I believe, about 20 years old? Second, we probably can't make a tape in the format you need. > This is for use in the Gyroscope repair facility at Robins AFB and the > end users will be the US Government. > > Please let me know if this is avialable or can be custom ordered and, if > so, the cost of such an order. > But there might be some hope. Coincidentally, somebody else made a similar request recently, and downloaded the Kermit version for P/OS (a long-dead RSX based OS for desktop "Professional" PDP-11 systems) and claims that it works; his name and contact info are: Dr. Keith R. Hallam University of Bristol, Interface Analysis Centre, Oldbury House, 121, St. Michael's Hill, Bristol, BS2 8BS, England Telephone: + 44 (0)117 925 5666 | E-mail: k.r.hallam@bristol.ac.uk Facsimile: + 44 (0)117 925 5646 | URL: http://zeus.bris.ac.uk/~phkrh/ I've cc'd him on this message. I asked our resident PDP-11 expert, Billy Youdelman (also cc'd), about this, and he said: I'm not sure how much of it worked - it may be some of the more basic functions such as communicating via the PDP-11 console terminal port will work, and in many cases this is enough to get the job done, in that a pc type system running Kermit can be connected to the PDP-11 and function as the console terminal, allowing files to be easily transferred by simply starting Kermit on the PDP-11. My experience has been this is what 90%+ of the users of these lab or process control systems would prefer anyway - it doesn't require adding a serial interface, finding a comm driver for that, etc. This is also not as demanding as to trying to run a task-scheduled terminal emulator which may require things like timer support to be sysgenned into RSX itself (without which it would either hang or race, depending on how it's written) and is defninitely worth a try in this case. (end quote) So I'd recommend you try the k11pos.tsk image first. Use anonymous ftp to kermit.columbia.edu, directory kermit/bin, binary mode, file k11pos.tsk. Documentation (in text mode) is in kermit/b/k11*.doc (or *.ps if you have a PostScript printer). You'll need to figure out how to get it onto your machine. Maybe some of the people on the cc list can offer some hints, or maybe it is available from DECUS on the required media. I hope this helps. Let me know how it goes. - Frank 9-Aug-97 21:18:38-GMT,2983;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from cello.Opus1.COM (Cello.Opus1.COM [192.245.12.7]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA11588 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 17:18:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Opus1.COM by Opus1.COM (PMDF V5.1-7 #9830) id <01IM8LJMY5J4ANGSPD@Opus1.COM> for fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 14:18:35 MST Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 14:11:59 -0700 (MST) From: billy@MIX.COM Subject: Re: Kermit for PDP-11 In-reply-to: "Your message dated Sat, 09 Aug 1997 17:08:40 -0400 (EDT)" Sender: Billy@MIX.COM To: Alan Segal Cc: Frank da Cruz , Billy Youdelman Message-id: <01IM8LVD055AANGSPD@Opus1.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Hi - > > I use KERMIT to transfer binary data from a DEC PDP-11/73 to my PC running > > Win95 (or 3.1). For this to work I need a matched pair of KERMITS. For > > MS-Kermit, I use version 2.29 (May 26, 1986)... > > > All Kermit versions should match. You should be able to use MS-DOS Kermit > 3.14 (the current version) just as well. In the case of the RT-11/TSX+ Kermit (KRT) the latest release would be the best choice here - it supports more operating system versions and in all cases provides more functionality using less memory than K11 does. > > ... and for the Kermit-11, well I have forgotten which version, and that's > > my problem. Since my PDP crashed recently, I lost my version of Kermit-11. > > What I really need is a copy of the appropriate Kermit-11 program (matching > > MS-Kermit 2.29)... > > > We don't keep old versions around if we can help it. The current version of > Kermit-11 is T3.60 from 1989, for RSX and IAS. For RT-11, TSX+, and RSTS > we have newer ones. If this is something you really must have I have several older DECUS SIG tapes which contain older releases of K11. These should be on the Sunsite anonymous ftp host available via dial-up > There is a well-known bug in Kermit-11 regarding something called "attribute > packets" that might prevent it from working with more modern Kermits on the > other end, but this is easily circumvented by telling one or both Kermits to > "set attributes off". > > ... on a 5.25" DEC RX50 floppy. > > > Our last RX50 died many years ago. > DECUS used to distribute Kermit-11 on all sorts of DEC-specific media like > this (8" floppy, DECtape, RX50, etc). Maybe you can get it from them? > In any case, you can also download it from here and then get it onto your > PDP-11 using any method you have at your disposal, which, I grant, tends to > be a chicken-and-egg situation. > Kermit-11 for RSX and IAS: > ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/b/k11*.* > The newer version for RT and TSX+: > ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/b/krt*.* > The newer version for RSTS: > ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/test/pdp11/krt*.* > - Frank 27-Aug-97 23:06:28-GMT,6146;000000000011 Return-Path: Received: from mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu (mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.35.143]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA11786 for ; Wed, 27 Aug 1997 19:06:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from newman.egh.com (egh.tiac.net [206.119.76.136]) by mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA16644 for ; Wed, 27 Aug 1997 19:06:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from egh.com (resend@newman.egh.com [206.119.76.136]) by newman.egh.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA26374 for ; Wed, 27 Aug 1997 18:19:49 -0400 Received: by cousy.egh.com (MX V4.1 VAX) id 5; Wed, 27 Aug 1997 18:43:41 EDT Sender: john@egh.com Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 18:43:40 EDT From: John Santos Reply-To: To: kermit-support@columbia.edu CC: MORRISA@ECF.TORONTO.EDU, BILLY@MIX.COM, TERRY@SPCVXA.SPC.EDU, john@egh.com Message-ID: <009B96A1.99AB67C0.5@cousy.egh.com> Subject: Re: Retaining RSX-type filenames upon downloading > >> We have Kermit-11 on PDP-11/34 using RSX-11M and Kermit-95 on a PC. The >> RSX file structure includes a version number (ie. filname.type;ver). If I >> send from one kermit to another using a wildcard, I don't believe the >> files are necessarily sent in order of rising version number. I would >> like to retain the complete filename upon receiving the file. I have use >> the SET FILE NAMES LITERAL, but that just send the filename.type correctly >> without the version number. The problem is that I have many different >> versions of the same filename.type that I would like to download and >> retain. >> >Unfortunately, the RSX version of Kermit-11 was orphaned some time ago; there >is nobody left to take care of it. The last version was T3.60. Is that the >one you have? The manual (k11mit.{doc,ps}) does not say a word about the >treatment of file version numbers, except that you can use wildcards in the >version field: > > XYZ.*;* All versions of files with a NAME of XYZ with any TYPE > (RSX-11M/M+ and P/OS only). > >But it does not say what happens to the version number when the filename is >sent to the other Kermit. Evidently it is chopped off. There is no > >SET FILE NAMES command in Kermit-11 to change this. > >However, since you are sending to K95, you can have K95 put "version numbers" >back on, although not necessarily the same ones. Suppose you have an RSX >file called FOO.TXT, with many versions, and you send FOO.TXT;*. Each of >these will be sent as FOO.TXT. If you tell K95 to: > > SET FILE COLLISION BACKUP > >then the incoming files will be called: > > FOO.TXT <--- last one received > FOO.TXT.~1~ <--- first one received > FOO.TXT.~2~ <--- second one received > FOO.TXT.~3~ <--- etc > FOO.TXT.~4~ > >etc. But you can't control the correspondence between RSX and K95 version >numbers. SET FILE COLLISION RENAME works in a similar way, except that after >the transfer, FOO.TXT will be the *first* one received. > >In any case, I would strongly recommend against any design that uses version >numbers to distinguish files. As you know, they are intended for backup and >journaling, not for distinguishing different files. If your application must >transfer the files to another kind of computer, you should not be taking >advantage of any RSX-specific features of filenames. (Yes, Windows 95 should >be able to handle these names, but most other OS's would not.) > >- Frank > Hi, I am no RSX expert, but I did some testing that bears this out. I took a look at the code in K11; it uses the RMS $search function to do the wild-card directory lookups, and so returns the files in "RMS" order, what ever that is. I think the order is well determined (i.e. the order of files in the directory), but, unlike VMS'es ODS-2, on ODS-1 (used by RSX) the files are not necessarily in descending order by version number. It has been ages since I've looked at a real RSX system, but I seem to remember that files were in no particular order. I do have access to a VAX that has some ODS-1 disks on it. (Our customer uses these disks to build large index files that they ultimately transfer to an RSX-11M system by backing the disks up to tape and then restoring the tapes on the RSX system. They use BRU for this, which I beleive makes an exact image of the source disk, so I am assuming the disks I can see are valid RSX disks.) The files on this disk and the directories are in no particular order. (VMS directories are sorted alphabetically) New versions of existing files seem to get created in the first available slot in the directory (if you create a bunch of files, delete some of them, and then create some new ones, the new ones get mingled in with the old ones.) This means that the order of files (and versions of files) in an active directory would soon become completely random. Using an RSX-based RMS utility (RMSDSP) on this disk, with a wild-card version number, the files are displayed in the same order as the VMS DIRECTORY command gives, which is randomly with respect to name and version number. Even though I did all this testing on a VAX, not on a real RSX system, the VAX RSX emulation is pretty good, and so I am fairly certain you would see the same thing on a real RSX system. If you know what the version numbers are, maybe you could get the files explicitly, rather than doing a wild-card get. Maybe you could write a Kermit script to run on the K95 PC which would put the RSX Kermit into server mode, do a remote directory, capture the output, parse it to extract the file names and version numbers, and explicitly get each file, creating an output file named FOO.TXT.~nnn~ for each FOO.TXT;nnn? Another alternative is to use SRD (an RSX utility, which I think is from DECUS and not an official, supported part of RSX), to produce a sorted list of files in a file, pull that file back to the PC, read it with a Kermit script that parses the names and version numbers, and receives the files as above. Hope this helps some. John Santos 12-Sep-97 14:45:26-GMT,13346;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: (from fdc@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA07119; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 10:45:23 -0400 (EDT) Sender: Frank da Cruz Date: Fri, 12 Sep 97 10:45:23 EDT From: Kermit Software Support To: John.P.Gouveia@grace.com Subject: Re: Kermit for Digital Vax PDP-11 In-Reply-To: Your message of Fri, 12 Sep 97 10:34:46 -0400 Cc: kermit-support@columbia.edu Reply-To: kermit-support@columbia.edu Message-ID: > I just found out that the operating system for the PDP-11 is RSX-11. > What version of Kermit should I use in this case? > Kermit-11 for RSX-11. But this is not a currently supported, or even well-understood product, so I don't have a simple answer for you. Instead, I offer the following email messages, which hopefully contain enough information to get you going, depending on which version of RSX you have, etc. Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 12:15:13 -0700 (MST) From: billy@MIX.COM Subject: Re: Kermit for micro/rsx v3.1 base level 24C To: k.r.hallam@bristol.ac.uk Cc: kermit-support@columbia.edu, billy@MIX.COM Hi - > > He directed me to > > ftp://ftp.columbia.edu/kermit/b/, where I became overwhelmed by the > > choice of files to download. I was looking for k11pos.tsk... > > > That might be for P/OS but not RSX. Or maybe not. This probably is P/OS specific. Having written a communications handler (driver) for this hardware and RT-11 I can at least say that part of the hardware is completely different from anything found in a 'real' PDP-11. > Nothing is ever as simple as we'd like it to be. As you can see, we have > quite a lot of Kermit-11 binaries in the kermit/bin area. The most sense I > have ever been able to make out of them is as follows (from the kermit/bin > READ.ME file): > k11.tsk - PDP-11 Kermit 3.60 for RSTS/E 8.0 or later > k11nrs.tsk - Ditto, but not linked with RMSRES > k11id.tsk - Ditto, but uses I&D space > k11idm.tsk - PDP-11 Kermit 3.60 for RSX11M+ or Micro/RSX > k11pos.tsk - PDP-11 Kermit 3.60 for RSX11M+, Micro/RSX, or P/OS > k11rsx.tsk - PDP-11 Kermit 3.60 for RSX, not linked with RMSRES > k11sml.tsk - PDP-11 Kermit 3.60 RSX11M, small executable, tightly overlaid > k11xm.sav - PDP-11 Kermit 3.60 for RT11 XM and TSX+ There are also .odl files for RSX which I believe are required to install and/or use the actual task images. Unfortunately MY RSX knowledge is very limited. I believe you'll need either k11rsx.tsx or k11sml.tsx, depending on how much memory you have available to load the image and run it. > I'd love to see the RSX version updated, and there is definitely some strong > (but sporadic) interest in having a fixed-up and updated version, but to date > nobody has been able to do the job. I'm copying this to the DEC newsgroup > in case it turns up any hitherto unknown RSX aficionados. I believe Johnny Billquist at Upsala University in Sweeden is working on an RSX Kermit - I don't have his email address handy but he does read the alt.sys.pdp11 and vmsnet.pdp-11 newsgroups and should be easy to find there. I'm also appending my followup to the news article discussing this. Regards, Billy Youdelman Maintainer of the RT-11 Kermit Path: MIX.COM!sluggy Subject: Re: PC ---> PDP-11 micro/RSX problems From: billy@mix.com Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc k.r.hallam@bristol.ac.uk writes: > Does anyone have any knowledge about using KERMIT-11 (k11pos T3.50, 2nd. > April 1986 (long packet support - whatever that means!), under > micro/RSX This is a somewhat older version of Kermit-11 - it may be the newer one (T3.60) will do better here. This is available by anonymous ftp from kermit.columbia.edu in the kermit/b directory. If getting it on to the PDP-11 is a problem you may need to transfer and then decode a hex encoded version of the K11 image. Instructions for doing this are in a file in the same directory named krthex.mac - this concerns RT-11 so you'll need to determine how to get PIP (a utility program) to accept input from the terminal (a rather minor detail). The hex encoded images have the file extension .hex - also k11pos is I believe for the Pro-300 series of PC-type systems DEC built in the mid-1980s so it may be some other assembly of Kermit-11 would do better on a real PDP-11. I've been maintaining and updating the RT-11 version of this for some years now and recall various comments in the code regarding problems with things in RSX changing as new versions of that were released. You'll likely be able to find some people familiar with RSX in the alt.sys.pdp11 and vmsnet.pdp-11 newsgroups. In particular Johnny Billquist at Upsala University in Sweeden may be familiar with what will run properly in this case, or know what is necessary to fix it. Long packet support means this Kermit is capable of using packets greater than 94 bytes long. I beleive the upper limit in the version you have is 600 bytes. This isn't much by today's standards but every little bit helps. To enable use of long packets on Kermit-11 you'll need to SET RECEIVE PACKET-LENGTH 600. Billy Y.. Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 10:53:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Frank da Cruz To: steve@discus.lincoln.ac.nz Subject: Re: Kermit for micro/rsx v3.1 base level 24C Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc,vmsnet.pdp-11,alt.sys.pdp11 Cc: Billy Youdelman , John Santos cc: post-comp.protocols.kermit.misc@clark.zippo.com, post-vmsnet.pdp-11@clark.zippo.com, post-alt.sys.pdp11@clark.zippo.com In article <33CA3666.22FB73C7@discus.lincoln.ac.nz> you write: : I have a dual unibus pdp11/34 running rsx11M+ v3.?, : with macro & fortran available... : Kermit-11 is written in Macro-11 with some accompanying utilities in Fortran. : as a result I have some current familiarity with writing RSX11M+ : device drivers. : I would love to get kermit running on our machine (older rsx), : how can I help. : It's a bit complicated. The last consistent source code for all PDP-11 OSs was Kermit-11 T3.60, and this is also the last version that supported RSX at all: ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/b/k11*.* RSX 3.x was *never* supported -- I recall this being an issue about 15 years ago. The position of the original K11 author, Brian Nelson, in the mid-1980s, was that sites should keep their DEC OS's up to date. Even by then, RSX 3.x was probably about 10 years old. Since Brian left the scene, Billy Youdelman picked up the RT-11 / TSX+ version, and the sources diverged. Billy's version (from 1993) is in: ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/b/krt*.* Then John Santos picked up the cudgel on behalf of RSTS/E and produced an update of Billy's code that is supposed to support both RT/TSX and RSTS: ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/test/pdp11/krt*.* These have been sitting there since October 1996, and I'm not sure to what extent we can consider them a replacement for Billy's 1993 version. Do they still work in RT-11 and TSX+? Some feedback would be useful. I'd say the order of business *should* be: 1. Let's get John's version out of test and replace Billy's version with it, to bring the number of source sets down to two. 2. Let's get the result working on RSX 4.0 and later (and, if it matters) IAS. 3. Then let's see if we can also make it work on RSX < 4.0. Maybe steps 2 and 3 can be merged -- I really do not know what special features of RSX are needed by K11. Or is it just that it requires RMS? - Frank From: phkrh@zeus.bris.ac.uk (K R. Hallam) Subject: Re: Kermit for micro/rsx v3.1 base level 24C Sender: usenet@fsa.bris.ac.uk (Usenet) Organization: University of Bristol, England Just a brief note to say that I sorted out my problems. Guido in Rome (from the surface science e-mail list) gave me sufficient instructions and an mscustom.ini file for my pc version to get the GET command on the PDP working (he used SEND from the pc but that didn't work for me - I know not why). Having got everything going, I could then kermit the newer kermit onto the PDP, and it still worked! In case it matters to anyone, I just downloaded k11pos.tsk from ftp://ftp.columbia.edu/kermit/bin/ (I think it was) (Thankyou for the pointer to the right directory) and it ran o.k on its own once I had got it onto the PDP. Now I've shown I can get my data going to and fro, all I need is a bigger hard disc and a network connection and....... Keith -- Dr. Keith R. Hallam University of Bristol, Interface Analysis Centre, Oldbury House, 121, St. Michael's Hill, Bristol, BS2 8BS, England Telephone: + 44 (0)117 925 5666 | E-mail: k.r.hallam@bristol.ac.uk Facsimile: + 44 (0)117 925 5646 | URL: http://zeus.bris.ac.uk/~phkrh/ Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 13:04:58 -0700 (MST) From: billy@MIX.COM Subject: Re: [Jennifer Jackson : Kermit for RSX-11 operating system] To: Frank da Cruz Cc: Billy Youdelman Hi - > My goodness, here we go again with Kermit for RSX 3-point-something... > What is it, a 20th anniversary celebration or something? I'm still not sure > I understand the current situation -- I thought that K11 simply did not work > on RSX 3.x, but the last guy said he downloaded K11POS.TSK and it did work??? I'm not sure how much of it worked - it may be some of the more basic functions such as communicating via the PDP-11 console terminal port will work, and in many cases this is enough to get the job done, in that a pc type system running Kermit can be connected to the PDP-11 and function as the console terminal, allowing files to be easily transferred by simply starting Kermit on the PDP-11. My experience has been this is what 90%+ of the users of these lab or process control systems would prefer anyway - it doesn't require adding a serial interface, finding a comm driver for that, etc. This is also not as demanding as to trying to run a task-scheduled terminal emulator which may require things like timer support to be sysgenned into RSX itself (without which it would either hang or race, depending on how it's written) and is defninitely worth a try in this case. Regards, Billy Y.. Date: Thu, 24 Jul 97 10:51:26 EDT From: Frank da Cruz To: jljackson@prodigy.net Subject: Re: Kermit for RSX-11 operating system In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 22 Jul 1997 15:44:54 -0500 Cc: kermit-support@watsun.cc.columbia.edu, Billy Youdelman , k.r.hallam@bristol.ac.uk > I am trying to locate the following: > > Kermit for an RSX-11M operating system, Version 3.1 Baseline 26 > on a 9 track tape 1600 BPI with a block size of 2048. > I'm not sure that we can meet your requirements. First of all, there has never been a version of Kermit for RSX versions prior to 4. Version 3 is, I believe, about 20 years old? Second, we probably can't make a tape in the format you need. > This is for use in the Gyroscope repair facility at Robins AFB and the > end users will be the US Government. > > Please let me know if this is avialable or can be custom ordered and, if > so, the cost of such an order. > But there might be some hope. Coincidentally, somebody else made a similar request recently, and downloaded the Kermit version for P/OS (a long-dead RSX based OS for desktop "Professional" PDP-11 systems) and claims that it works; his name and contact info are: Dr. Keith R. Hallam University of Bristol, Interface Analysis Centre, Oldbury House, 121, St. Michael's Hill, Bristol, BS2 8BS, England Telephone: + 44 (0)117 925 5666 | E-mail: k.r.hallam@bristol.ac.uk Facsimile: + 44 (0)117 925 5646 | URL: http://zeus.bris.ac.uk/~phkrh/ I've cc'd him on this message. I asked our resident PDP-11 expert, Billy Youdelman (also cc'd), about this, and he said: I'm not sure how much of it worked - it may be some of the more basic functions such as communicating via the PDP-11 console terminal port will work, and in many cases this is enough to get the job done, in that a pc type system running Kermit can be connected to the PDP-11 and function as the console terminal, allowing files to be easily transferred by simply starting Kermit on the PDP-11. My experience has been this is what 90%+ of the users of these lab or process control systems would prefer anyway - it doesn't require adding a serial interface, finding a comm driver for that, etc. This is also not as demanding as to trying to run a task-scheduled terminal emulator which may require things like timer support to be sysgenned into RSX itself (without which it would either hang or race, depending on how it's written) and is defninitely worth a try in this case. (end quote) So I'd recommend you try the k11pos.tsk image first. Use anonymous ftp to kermit.columbia.edu, directory kermit/bin, binary mode, file k11pos.tsk. Documentation (in text mode) is in kermit/b/k11*.doc (or *.ps if you have a PostScript printer). You'll need to figure out how to get it onto your machine. Maybe some of the people on the cc list can offer some hints, or maybe it is available from DECUS on the required media. I hope this helps. Let me know how it goes. - Frank 5-Feb-97 9:43:21-GMT,1277;000000000011 Received: from mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu (mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.35.143]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA29614 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 04:43:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from nuustak.csir.co.za (nuustak.csir.co.za [146.64.10.11]) by mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA14081 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 04:42:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from stuling.aerotek ([146.64.253.227]) by nuustak.csir.co.za (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA07530 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 11:41:48 +0200 (GMT+0200) Disclaimer: The CSIR exercises no editorial control over E-mail messages originating in the organisation and the views in this message are therefore not necessarily those of the CSIR and/or its employees. Message-ID: <32F8571E.5198@csir.co.za> Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 11:47:11 +0200 From: Sean Tuling X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: kermit@columbia.edu Subject: Kermit for PDP-11 running RSX11M+ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, How do I order Kermit for DEC RSX11M+ via e-mail? What is the cost? Thank you. Regards Sean Tuling 24-Sep-97 19:24:50-GMT,1716;000000000011 Return-Path: Received: from storm.worldnet.net (storm.worldnet.net [194.2.128.241]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA07725 for ; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 15:24:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p13-053.province.worldnet.fr (p13-053.province.worldnet.fr [195.3.13.53]) by storm.worldnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA25221 for ; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 21:24:32 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 21:24:32 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199709241924.VAA25221@storm.worldnet.net> X-Sender: rbeneyt@worldnet.fr (Unverified) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Frank da Cruz From: rbeneyt@worldnet.fr (Richard Beneyt) Subject: Re: Kermit on DEC RSX11M operating system X-Mailer: >> I'm looking for some way to make a PDP11 running RSX11M os communicate with >> a unix box over phone lines. So, I wonder wether kermit runs on RSX11M on a >> PDP11 ? >> >Yes. We don't have a pdp-11 section on our website yet, but the files are >all there nevertheless: > > ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/b/k11*.* > >- Frank Hi Frank, Thanks for your mail, but we're a bit lost about the files we must choose in kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/b/k11*.* because there are so many ! Should we really get k11*.* to use kermit on RSX11M or only a subset of this ? Also, we don't understand some files extensions like .hex for instance, are these files necessary to build kermit11 ? we're not RSX11M specialists as you can see but we have to make this box communicate... Well, could you help a little more please ? Thanks. Richard Beneyt. Richard Beneyt 24-Sep-97 19:31:20-GMT,1381;000000000011 Return-Path: Received: from mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu (mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.35.143]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA09633 for ; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 15:31:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gatorade.wwnet.net (gatorade.wwnet.net [206.62.36.10]) by mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA07208 for ; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 15:31:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dlinke.wwnet.com (ponas277.wwnet.com [206.84.184.77]) by gatorade.wwnet.net (8.8.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA29955 for ; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 15:31:09 -0400 Message-ID: <34296AF5.1292@wwnet.com> Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 15:33:10 -0400 From: dl Reply-To: dlinke@wwnet.com Organization: MST X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-WWNet (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: kermit@columbia.edu Subject: Kermit software use Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Sir/Madam, I have been contracted by a General Motors Plant to connect a PC to a PDP-11 (RSX operating) system for the purpose of transferring data. I need to know what requirements, purchases (if any) I must fulfill inorder to install and use kermit on their system. Secondly, what media type (ex: 8 inch floppy, 5.25, etc. does the RSX version reside on. Thank you. Dennis Linke 26-Sep-97 21:58:51-GMT,9241;000000000005 Return-Path: Received: from cello.Opus1.COM (Cello.Opus1.COM [192.245.12.7]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA06885 for ; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 17:58:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Opus1.COM by Opus1.COM (PMDF V5.1-7 #9830) id <01IO3O5O1BEOANMVRX@Opus1.COM> for fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 14:58:41 MST Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 14:27:19 -0700 (MST) From: billy@MIX.COM Subject: Re: PDP-11 Kermit info In-reply-to: "Your message dated Thu, 25 Sep 1997 18:06:03 -0400 (EDT)" Sender: Billy@MIX.COM To: Frank da Cruz Cc: billy@MIX.COM Message-id: <01IO3P9NM3AUANMVRX@Opus1.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Hi - > to put together a quickie web page to sort it all out, but I'd appreciate > it if any or all of you could take a look at it and send any suggestions, > corrections, amplifications, etc: Appended is a copy of pdp11.txt with some changes in the RT-11 sections. Also note a new release, V3.63, of the KRT Kermit will be made this coming November 1st, at which time this page will need a minor revision to reflect that. I am 100% confident of making this date which will coincide with the fall DECUS symposium and an announcement from Mentec regarding RT-11, the details of which have already been discussed, concerning their supplying KRT with the RT-11 distribution. Regards, Billy Y.. Kermit for the PDP-11 D R A F T Kermit-11 is the Kermit software for Digital Equipment Corporation PDP-11 operating systems: RT-11, RSX-11, RSTS/E, IAS, P/OS, and (not a DEC OS) TSX+. Kermit-11 was written by Brian Nelson of the University of Toledo, Ohio, circa 1984-89, in PDP-11 assembly language, Macro-11. The source code is available, as well as prebuilt binaries for various configurations, and is available at our ftp site in the kermit/b subdirectory as k11*.mac. There are also various utilities -- hex encoders and decoders, etc -- written Macro-11, Fortran, and Basic in the same directory, along with all the Kermit-11 text files, whose names all start with "k11". Kermit-11 can operate in either remote or local mode; that is, it can transfer files when it is on the far end, and it can make connections and enter terminal mode (and transfer files) when it is on the "near end". The documentation for Kermit-11 is based on Brian's last release. Please note that the ".doc" extension has been in use since before Microsoft existed, and so if your Browser thinks it's some kind of rich-text document that needs a helper application to read it, tell it to just load it directly as plain text, no helper needed. * PDP-11 Kermit User Manual, plain text. * PDP-11 Kermit User Manual, PostScript. Installation instructions are also available: * PDP-11 Kermit Installation Instructions, plain text. * PDP-11 Kermit Installation Instructions, Runoff source. There are separate versions of Kermit-11 for each OS. Originally these were all built from a common code base. After Brian moved on, some of the versions took on separate identities. The PDP-11 Kermit versions are: RSX-11, RSX-11/M, RSX-11/M+, Micro/RSX, IAS, and P/OS Brian's last release, 3.60 from June 1989, is still current for RSX and its cousins. RSX-11/M 4.1, RSX-11/M+ 2.1, P/OS 2.0 or IAS 3.1 or later is required in most cases. This version has some bugs that prevent successful transfers with more modern Kermits, which can usually be worked around by telling one or both Kermit programs to "set attributes off". =============== modified text follows RT-11, Pro/RT, and TSX-Plus A new version, 3.62, for the RT-11 family only, was produced by Billy Youdelman in September 1993 and includes lots of bug fixes and enhancements. Version 3.63 will be released November 1, 1997. RT-11 4.0, TSX-Plus 5.0, or Pro/RT 5.1 or later are required. All of the source files are in the kermit/b area as krt*.*. krt.doc contains complete installation instructions for RT-11 and TSX-Plus. =============== modified text ends Perhaps krt.doc could be a link here ala the above doc files? =============== RSTS/E The RSTS version was further developed by John Santos in 1996, based on Billy's version, and a test edition of John's improved RSTS version is available. RSTS/E 8.0 or later is required. The source files are in the kermit/test/pdp11/ area as krt*.*. 2.8, 2.9, 2.10, and 2.11 BSD The 2.xBSD versions are covered by C-Kermit rather than Kermit-11. Ditto for other PDP-11 UNIX OSs such as Ultrix-11, UNIX v6 or v7, etc. It is a goal of the Kermit Project to unify the divergent Kermit-11 versions, bringing the RSX version up to date in the process but this will require some volunteer effort by PDP-11 aficionados, and no promises can be made. File Organization As noted, all the text files, including source code, documentation, utilities, and so on, are in the kermit/b directory of the Kermit software archive, all sharing the filename prefix "k11". The newer RT/TSX version is in the same directory, but with prefix "krt". The RSTS/E test version is in kermit/test/pdp11. Binaries are in kermit/bin/ and kermit/test/pdp11/bin/. Binary Executables Here they are. More detailed descriptions can be found in the installation instructions. k11.tsk Kermit-11 3.60 for RSTS/E 8.0 or later, linked to RMSRES k11id.tsk As above but with I&D space k11nrs.tsk RSTS, but not linked with RMSRES krtid.tsk A test 3.62 version for RSTS, requires I&D space k11idm.tsk Kermit-11 3.60 for RSX11M+ or Micro/RSX with I&D Space k11pos.tsk Kermit-11 3.60 For RSX11M+, Micro/RSX, or P/OS. Reportedly, this one might also work on RSX 3.x. k11rsx.tsk Kermit-11 3.60 for RSX, not linked with RMSRES k11sml.tsk Kermit-11 3.60 RSX11M, small executable, tightly overlaid k11i31.tsk Kermit-11 3.60 for IAS 3.1 k11ias.tsk Kermit-11 3.60 for IAS =============== modified text follows k11xm.sav Kermit-11 3.60 for mapped RT-11 monitors (XM/ZM/..) and TSX-Plus k11rt4.sav Kermit-11 3.60 for unmapped RT-11 monitors (FB/SB/SJ/..) and TSX-Plus krt.sav Kermit-11 3.62 for unmapped RT-11 monitors (FB/SB/SJ/..) and TSX-Plus krtmin.sav Kermit-11 3.62 minimal version for small or floppy-only RT-11 systems krttsx.sav Kermit-11 3.62 for mapped RT-11 monitors (XM/ZM/..) and TSX-Plus =============== modified text ends Hexified (text) Binaries These are "hex" encoded (i.e. printable text) versions of the executable programs. They are useful if you don't have any way to get binary files onto your PDP-11. Hex files can be "bootstrapped" in various ingenious ways that you probably know better than we do. =============== added text follows RT-11/TSX-Plus users may refer to the top of krthex.mac for detailed step-by-step instructions regarding moving hex files to an RT-11 host. =============== added text ends k11.hex Corresponds to k11.tsk. k11i31.hex Corresponds to k11i31.tsk. k11nrs.hex Corresponds to k11nrs.tsk. k11pos.hex Corresponds to k11pos.tsk. k11rsx.hex Corresponds to k11rsx.tsk. k11rt4.hex Corresponds to k11rt4.sav. k11xm.hex Corresponds to k11xm.sav. krt.hex Corresponds to krt.sav. krtmin.hex Corresponds to krtmin.sav. krttsx.hex Corresponds to krttsx.sav. Native Media Native media -- RX01, RX50, RK05, DECtape, who knows what else -- might be available from the DECUS library, 219 Boston Post Road, BP02, Marlboro, MA 01752-1850. Write, or call (800) 332-8755, or send Internet e-mail to decuslibrary@decus.org for further info. The Kermit Project has no PDP-11s in house to make PDP-11-specific formats. We can make ANSI-format 9-track tapes, which are supported by some PDP-11 OSs, and we can make VMS BACKUP format TK50s as well more common non-DEC formats like DOS diskettes, etc. Additional Information * Kermit-11 "Beware File", Assorted Hints, Tips, Cautions, and Reports. * Kermit-11 3.60 File List, Detailed notes on what's what, as of 1987. * Kermit-11 Edit History * Kermit-11 Help File _________________________________________________________________ Kermit for the PDP-11 / Columbia University / kermit@columbia.edu / 24 September 1997 30-Sep-97 20:23:13-GMT,690;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: (from fdc@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA15767; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 16:22:54 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 97 16:22:53 EDT From: Frank da Cruz To: billy@MIX.COM Subject: Re: PDP-11 Kermit info In-Reply-To: Your message of Fri, 26 Sep 1997 14:27:19 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: Thanks! I put up a new copy of the pdp-11 Kermit web page. If you spot anything else that needs changing, or can think of additional helpful info for it, let me know. Are you working with John Santos on the November release? It would be great if RSTS was covered too... - Frank 30-Sep-97 2:01:42-GMT,1345;000000000011 Return-Path: Received: from mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu (mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.35.143]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA10514 for ; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 22:01:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail1.rosprint.net (mail1.RoSprint.net [193.232.88.140]) by mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA23205 for ; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 22:01:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from keep.scn.ru (keep.scn.ru [195.151.16.41]) by mail1.rosprint.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA16152 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 05:01:30 +0300 (MSK) Received: from dima.scn.ru (dima.scn.ru [195.151.16.39]) by keep.scn.ru (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA18524 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 10:02:51 +0800 (KRSS) Message-Id: <199709300202.KAA18524@keep.scn.ru> From: "D.Tchernikov" To: Subject: I'm need Kermit for MUMPS Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 09:57:13 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm want to have Kermit for MUMPS please answer me to ruslan@lcs.krasnoyarsk.su Best regards, Ruslan Araslanov 30-Sep-97 2:05:26-GMT,1052;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: (from jaltman@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA10821; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 22:04:45 -0400 (EDT) Sender: Jeffrey Altman Date: Mon, 29 Sep 97 22:04:44 EDT From: kermit-support@watsun.cc.columbia.edu To: "D.Tchernikov" , ruslan@lcs.krasnoyarsk.su Cc: Subject: Re: I'm need Kermit for MUMPS In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 30 Sep 1997 09:57:13 -0000 Reply-To: kermit-support@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Message-ID: > I'm want to have Kermit for MUMPS > please answer me to ruslan@lcs.krasnoyarsk.su > > Best regards, > Ruslan Araslanov > MUMPS on what platform? DOS, Windows, Unix, ... ? Jeffrey Altman * Sr.Software Designer * Kermit-95 for Win32 and OS/2 The Kermit Project * Columbia University 612 West 115th St #716 * New York, NY * 10025 * (212) 854-1344 http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/k95.html * kermit-support@columbia.edu 30-Sep-97 3:39:02-GMT,1679;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from relay1.krasnet.ru (relay1.krasnet.ru [193.125.44.91]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA23900 for ; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 23:38:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from post.krasnet.ru (post.krasnet.ru [193.125.44.81]) by relay1.krasnet.ru (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA06295 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 11:38:49 +0800 (KRD) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by post.krasnet.ru (8.8.5/8.8.5) with UUCP id KAA25332 for kermit-support@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 10:38:28 +0700 (KRS) Received: from ruslan.lcs.krasnoyarsk.su (ruslan [98.0.0.77]) by lcs.krasnoyarsk.su (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA00815 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 11:32:40 +0700 Message-Id: <199709300432.LAA00815@lcs.krasnoyarsk.su> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Ruslan N. Araslanov" Organization: Large Computer Systems Company To: kermit-support@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 11:32:57 +0800 Subject: Re: I'm need Kermit for MUMPS Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.10) On 29 Sep 97 at 22:04, kermit-support@watsun.cc.colu wrote: > > I'm want to have Kermit for MUMPS > > please answer me to ruslan@lcs.krasnoyarsk.su > > > MUMPS on what platform? > > DOS, Windows, Unix, ... ? > My freinds use MUMPS on PDP-11/85, I think, that MUPMS they use under RSX11M, but i dont known. Best regards, Ruslan N. Araslanov Leading System Programmer ------------------- Phone/Fax: +7 (3912) 34-05-03, 34-09-84, 34-83-77 30-Sep-97 4:06:23-GMT,2526;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: (from jaltman@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA27246 for fdc; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 00:06:23 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 97 0:06:23 EDT From: Jeffrey Altman Reply-To: jaltman@columbia.edu To: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Subject: ["Ruslan N. Araslanov" : Re: I'm need Kermit for MUMPS] Message-ID: I think you can answer this better than I at the moment. --------------- Return-Path: Received: from relay1.krasnet.ru (relay1.krasnet.ru [193.125.44.91]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA23900 for ; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 23:38:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from post.krasnet.ru (post.krasnet.ru [193.125.44.81]) by relay1.krasnet.ru (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA06295 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 11:38:49 +0800 (KRD) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by post.krasnet.ru (8.8.5/8.8.5) with UUCP id KAA25332 for kermit-support@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 10:38:28 +0700 (KRS) Received: from ruslan.lcs.krasnoyarsk.su (ruslan [98.0.0.77]) by lcs.krasnoyarsk.su (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA00815 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 11:32:40 +0700 Message-Id: <199709300432.LAA00815@lcs.krasnoyarsk.su> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Ruslan N. Araslanov" Organization: Large Computer Systems Company To: kermit-support@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 11:32:57 +0800 Subject: Re: I'm need Kermit for MUMPS Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.10) On 29 Sep 97 at 22:04, kermit-support@watsun.cc.colu wrote: > > I'm want to have Kermit for MUMPS > > please answer me to ruslan@lcs.krasnoyarsk.su > > > MUMPS on what platform? > > DOS, Windows, Unix, ... ? > My freinds use MUMPS on PDP-11/85, I think, that MUPMS they use under RSX11M, but i dont known. Best regards, Ruslan N. Araslanov Leading System Programmer ------------------- Phone/Fax: +7 (3912) 34-05-03, 34-09-84, 34-83-77 Jeffrey Altman * Sr.Software Designer * Kermit-95 for Win32 and OS/2 The Kermit Project * Columbia University 612 West 115th St #716 * New York, NY * 10025 * (212) 854-1344 http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/k95.html * kermit-support@columbia.edu 30-Sep-97 20:25:23-GMT,841;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: (from fdc@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA16029; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 16:24:42 -0400 (EDT) Sender: Frank da Cruz Date: Tue, 30 Sep 97 16:24:41 EDT From: Kermit Software Support To: ruslan@lcs.krasnoyarsk.su, "D.Tchernikov" Subject: Re: I'm need Kermit for MUMPS In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 30 Sep 1997 09:57:13 -0000 Cc: kermit-support@columbia.edu Reply-To: kermit-support@columbia.edu Message-ID: > I'm want to have Kermit for MUMPS > Do you have a Web browser? If so, please take a look at our PDP-11 Kermit Web page: http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/pdp11.html > please answer me to ruslan@lcs.krasnoyarsk.su > The home of the big radar? :-) - Frank 1-Oct-97 1:39:04-GMT,1784;000000000011 Return-Path: Received: from mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu (mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.35.143]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA06112 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 21:39:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from relay1.krasnet.ru (relay1.krasnet.ru [193.125.44.91]) by mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA15683 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 21:38:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from post.krasnet.ru (post.krasnet.ru [193.125.44.81]) by relay1.krasnet.ru (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA13819 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 1997 09:38:22 +0800 (KRD) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by post.krasnet.ru (8.8.5/8.8.5) with UUCP id IAA07086 for kermit-support@columbia.edu; Wed, 1 Oct 1997 08:38:08 +0700 (KRS) Received: from ruslan.lcs.krasnoyarsk.su (ruslan [98.0.0.77]) by lcs.krasnoyarsk.su (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA00631 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 1997 09:31:23 +0700 Message-Id: <199710010231.JAA00631@lcs.krasnoyarsk.su> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Ruslan N. Araslanov" Organization: Large Computer Systems Company To: kermit-support@columbia.edu Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 09:31:44 +0800 Subject: Re: I'm need Kermit for MUMPS Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.10) I'm sorry, but i have only Email and FTP gate. Please say me another way to obtain that. > Do you have a Web browser? If so, please take a look > at our PDP-11 Kermit Web page: > > http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/pdp11.html > Best regards, Ruslan N. Araslanov Leading System Programmer ------------------- Phone/Fax: +7 (3912) 34-05-03, 34-09-84, 34-83-77 1-Oct-97 13:42:31-GMT,1052;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: (from fdc@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA06978; Wed, 1 Oct 1997 09:41:53 -0400 (EDT) Sender: Frank da Cruz Date: Wed, 1 Oct 97 9:41:53 EDT From: Kermit Software Support To: "Ruslan N. Araslanov" Subject: Re: I'm need Kermit for MUMPS In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 1 Oct 1997 09:31:44 +0800 Cc: kermit-support@columbia.edu Reply-To: kermit-support@columbia.edu Message-ID: > I'm sorry, but i have only Email and FTP gate. > Please say me another way to obtain that. > > > Do you have a Web browser? If so, please take a look > > at our PDP-11 Kermit Web page: > > > > http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/pdp11.html > Anonymous ftp to kermit.columbia.edu [128.59.39.2], directory kermit/b, text mode, files mp*.*. This is quite old and we don't know anything about it except what is written in the accompanying documentation files. Good luck! - Frank 2-Oct-97 1:39:15-GMT,1599;000000000011 Return-Path: Received: from mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu (mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.35.143]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA25889 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 1997 21:39:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from relay1.krasnet.ru (relay1.krasnet.ru [193.125.44.91]) by mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA16710 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 1997 21:39:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from post.krasnet.ru (post.krasnet.ru [193.125.44.81]) by relay1.krasnet.ru (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA21668 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 09:38:57 +0800 (KRD) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by post.krasnet.ru (8.8.5/8.8.5) with UUCP id IAA25409 for kermit-support@columbia.edu; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 08:38:48 +0700 (KRS) Received: from ruslan.lcs.krasnoyarsk.su (ruslan [98.0.0.77]) by lcs.krasnoyarsk.su (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA00488 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 09:23:57 +0700 Message-Id: <199710020223.JAA00488@lcs.krasnoyarsk.su> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Ruslan N. Araslanov" Organization: Large Computer Systems Company To: kermit-support@columbia.edu Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 09:24:23 +0800 Subject: Re: I'm need Kermit for MUMPS Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.10) Thank you very much for the rendered help, Frank! Best regards, Ruslan N. Araslanov Leading System Programmer ------------------- Phone/Fax: +7 (3912) 34-05-03, 34-09-84, 34-83-77 2-Oct-97 13:49:31-GMT,715;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: (from fdc@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA04206; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 09:49:14 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 2 Oct 97 9:49:13 EDT From: Frank da Cruz To: "Ruslan N. Araslanov" Subject: Re: I'm need Kermit for MUMPS In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 2 Oct 1997 09:24:23 +0800 Message-ID: > Thank you very much for the rendered help, Frank! > You are very welcome. Let me know if it works or if you have to make any changes to it. (It it doesn't work, there is not much we can do, since we have no more PDP-11s, and I haven't seen MUMPS since 1974 :-) - Frank 7-Oct-97 5:49:27-GMT,1747;000000000005 Return-Path: Received: from cello.Opus1.COM (Cello.Opus1.COM [192.245.12.7]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA18002 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 01:49:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Opus1.COM by Opus1.COM (PMDF V5.1-9 #9830) id <01IOI3W3QOGWBOTVO1@Opus1.COM> for fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 22:49:12 MST Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 22:29:47 -0700 (MST) From: billy@MIX.COM Subject: Re: PDP-11 Kermit info In-reply-to: "Your message dated Tue, 30 Sep 1997 16:22:53 -0400 (EDT)" Sender: Billy@MIX.COM To: Frank da Cruz Cc: billy@MIX.COM Message-id: <01IOI4MFQ5L4BOTVO1@Opus1.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Hi - > Are you working with John Santos on the November release? It would be great > if RSTS was covered too... Sorry to be late answering, this is one of the few times I'm somewhat buried with work.. What's coming this November will be the final RT-11 only version of KRT. I'm now waiting to hear from John about updating his copy of the sources - if he's got something ready to release we can use that instead. V3.63 is intended for distribution with RT-11 by Mentec, the combined RT-11 and RSTS version is 4.64 and will build the same RT-11 executables as V3.63. Once the RSTS version is working well we can then add more features - in the meantime 3.63 is more than adequate for RT-11 users. And then a pretty sharp RSX person, Johnny Bilquist at Upsala University in Sweeden , has expressed interest in working on KRT. I'll be sending him a copy of the updated sources as soon as I have that done. Regards, Billy Y.. 7-Oct-97 5:49:27-GMT,1747;000000000005 Return-Path: Received: from cello.Opus1.COM (Cello.Opus1.COM [192.245.12.7]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA18002 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 01:49:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Opus1.COM by Opus1.COM (PMDF V5.1-9 #9830) id <01IOI3W3QOGWBOTVO1@Opus1.COM> for fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 22:49:12 MST Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 22:29:47 -0700 (MST) From: billy@MIX.COM Subject: Re: PDP-11 Kermit info In-reply-to: "Your message dated Tue, 30 Sep 1997 16:22:53 -0400 (EDT)" Sender: Billy@MIX.COM To: Frank da Cruz Cc: billy@MIX.COM Message-id: <01IOI4MFQ5L4BOTVO1@Opus1.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Hi - > Are you working with John Santos on the November release? It would be great > if RSTS was covered too... Sorry to be late answering, this is one of the few times I'm somewhat buried with work.. What's coming this November will be the final RT-11 only version of KRT. I'm now waiting to hear from John about updating his copy of the sources - if he's got something ready to release we can use that instead. V3.63 is intended for distribution with RT-11 by Mentec, the combined RT-11 and RSTS version is 4.64 and will build the same RT-11 executables as V3.63. Once the RSTS version is working well we can then add more features - in the meantime 3.63 is more than adequate for RT-11 users. And then a pretty sharp RSX person, Johnny Bilquist at Upsala University in Sweeden , has expressed interest in working on KRT. I'll be sending him a copy of the updated sources as soon as I have that done. Regards, Billy Y.. 15-Oct-97 19:17:56-GMT,1633;000000000011 Return-Path: Received: from cello.Opus1.COM (Cello.Opus1.COM [192.245.12.7]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA16396 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 15:17:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Opus1.COM by Opus1.COM (PMDF V5.1-9 #9830) id <01IOU2S7FJWGBP08ZO@Opus1.COM> for fdc@watsun.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 12:17:43 MST Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 12:13:23 -0700 (MST) From: billy@MIX.COM Subject: Re: DX11 baud rates under RT11 In-reply-to: "Your message dated Wed, 15 Oct 1997 12:09:32 -0800 (PDT)" <9710151909.AA21472@alph02.triumf.ca> Sender: Billy@MIX.COM To: Tim Shoppa , fdc@watsun.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU Cc: billy@MIX.COM Message-id: <01IOU36MZQXSBP08ZO@Opus1.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII References: Hi - I was planning on waiting for the DECUS symposium this November to announce this but at this point there's no reason why it can't be sped up a bit - my biggest problem right now would be getting the time to write up a formal announcement - I have to go in to CBS in about 30 minutes and have no idea when they'll let me go. Frank, all the files are on watsun now, in /w/guests/billy/krt363 and the binaries are in krt363-bin - you're welcome to copy all those over to kermit/b, and then update the PDP-11 web page to correct the date. I'll write up an announcement and get it to you as soon as I can, within a couple days at the longest, which can then be posted to the moderated Kermit newsgroup along with a few others... Regards, Billy Y.. 15-Oct-97 19:17:56-GMT,1633;000000000015 Return-Path: Received: from cello.Opus1.COM (Cello.Opus1.COM [192.245.12.7]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA16396 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 15:17:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Opus1.COM by Opus1.COM (PMDF V5.1-9 #9830) id <01IOU2S7FJWGBP08ZO@Opus1.COM> for fdc@watsun.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 12:17:43 MST Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 12:13:23 -0700 (MST) From: billy@MIX.COM Subject: Re: DX11 baud rates under RT11 In-reply-to: "Your message dated Wed, 15 Oct 1997 12:09:32 -0800 (PDT)" <9710151909.AA21472@alph02.triumf.ca> Sender: Billy@MIX.COM To: Tim Shoppa , fdc@watsun.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU Cc: billy@MIX.COM Message-id: <01IOU36MZQXSBP08ZO@Opus1.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII References: Hi - I was planning on waiting for the DECUS symposium this November to announce this but at this point there's no reason why it can't be sped up a bit - my biggest problem right now would be getting the time to write up a formal announcement - I have to go in to CBS in about 30 minutes and have no idea when they'll let me go. Frank, all the files are on watsun now, in /w/guests/billy/krt363 and the binaries are in krt363-bin - you're welcome to copy all those over to kermit/b, and then update the PDP-11 web page to correct the date. I'll write up an announcement and get it to you as soon as I can, within a couple days at the longest, which can then be posted to the moderated Kermit newsgroup along with a few others... Regards, Billy Y.. 7-Oct-97 5:49:27-GMT,1747;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from cello.Opus1.COM (Cello.Opus1.COM [192.245.12.7]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA18002 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 01:49:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Opus1.COM by Opus1.COM (PMDF V5.1-9 #9830) id <01IOI3W3QOGWBOTVO1@Opus1.COM> for fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 22:49:12 MST Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 22:29:47 -0700 (MST) From: billy@MIX.COM Subject: Re: PDP-11 Kermit info In-reply-to: "Your message dated Tue, 30 Sep 1997 16:22:53 -0400 (EDT)" Sender: Billy@MIX.COM To: Frank da Cruz Cc: billy@MIX.COM Message-id: <01IOI4MFQ5L4BOTVO1@Opus1.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Hi - > Are you working with John Santos on the November release? It would be great > if RSTS was covered too... Sorry to be late answering, this is one of the few times I'm somewhat buried with work.. What's coming this November will be the final RT-11 only version of KRT. I'm now waiting to hear from John about updating his copy of the sources - if he's got something ready to release we can use that instead. V3.63 is intended for distribution with RT-11 by Mentec, the combined RT-11 and RSTS version is 4.64 and will build the same RT-11 executables as V3.63. Once the RSTS version is working well we can then add more features - in the meantime 3.63 is more than adequate for RT-11 users. And then a pretty sharp RSX person, Johnny Bilquist at Upsala University in Sweeden , has expressed interest in working on KRT. I'll be sending him a copy of the updated sources as soon as I have that done. Regards, Billy Y.. 15-Oct-97 19:17:56-GMT,1633;000000000011 Return-Path: Received: from cello.Opus1.COM (Cello.Opus1.COM [192.245.12.7]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA16396 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 15:17:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Opus1.COM by Opus1.COM (PMDF V5.1-9 #9830) id <01IOU2S7FJWGBP08ZO@Opus1.COM> for fdc@watsun.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 12:17:43 MST Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 12:13:23 -0700 (MST) From: billy@MIX.COM Subject: Re: DX11 baud rates under RT11 In-reply-to: "Your message dated Wed, 15 Oct 1997 12:09:32 -0800 (PDT)" <9710151909.AA21472@alph02.triumf.ca> Sender: Billy@MIX.COM To: Tim Shoppa , fdc@watsun.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU Cc: billy@MIX.COM Message-id: <01IOU36MZQXSBP08ZO@Opus1.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII References: Hi - I was planning on waiting for the DECUS symposium this November to announce this but at this point there's no reason why it can't be sped up a bit - my biggest problem right now would be getting the time to write up a formal announcement - I have to go in to CBS in about 30 minutes and have no idea when they'll let me go. Frank, all the files are on watsun now, in /w/guests/billy/krt363 and the binaries are in krt363-bin - you're welcome to copy all those over to kermit/b, and then update the PDP-11 web page to correct the date. I'll write up an announcement and get it to you as soon as I can, within a couple days at the longest, which can then be posted to the moderated Kermit newsgroup along with a few others... Regards, Billy Y.. 17-Oct-97 0:16:02-GMT,9096;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from cello.Opus1.COM (Cello.Opus1.COM [192.245.12.7]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA29904 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 20:15:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Opus1.COM by Opus1.COM (PMDF V5.1-9 #9830) id <01IOVR9KIHR4BP0W31@Opus1.COM> for fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:15:49 MST Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:14:43 -0700 (MST) From: billy@MIX.COM Subject: KRT V3.63 Announcement In-reply-to: "Your message dated Wed, 15 Oct 1997 15:20:18 -0400 (EDT)" Sender: Billy@MIX.COM To: Frank da Cruz Cc: billy@MIX.COM Message-id: <01IOVRVL7TCEBP0W31@Opus1.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Hi - Appended is an announcement for KRT V3.63. I'm sending it to you as opposed to posting it to comp.protocols.kermit.announce as I'm not sure any of the news hosts I have available will not post it anyway due to the mix of moderated and unmoderated newsgroups.. Thanks! Billy Y.. --------------------------cut here------------------------------- Subject: Announcing KRT V3.63 for RT-11 and TSX-Plus From: billy@MIX.COM Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.announce,alt.sys.pdp11,comp.sys.dec,comp.sys.dec.micro,comp.protocols.kermit.misc,vmsnet.pdp-11 I'm pleased to announce an update to the KRT Kermit for the PDP-11 RT-11 and TSX-Plus operating systems is ready for production service. Version 3.63 adds several new features and performance enhancements which are detailed below, as well as fixing all known bugs, and is available now by anonymous ftp from . All sources are on-line but just a few files are required to install and use the distributed executable program images - kermit/b/krt.doc Installation instructions, index of all files kermit/b/krt.ini Sample init file kermit/b/krthlp.hlp HELP text file kermit/bin/krt.sav Executable for RT-11FB/SB/SJ or TSX+ kermit/bin/krttsx.sav Executable for RT-11XB/XM/ZB/ZM or TSX+ This edition represents a significant step forward in both speed and convenience. I strongly urge all users of RT-11/TSX-Plus to upgrade as soon as possible. My sincere thanks to all who've made suggestions and above all helped test this work - one of its key points is it's been thoroughly tested over quite some time and has been found to be extremely stable. There is yet more to come, work is also being done by John Santos for RSTS/E and KRT remains a fully supported Kermit - if you have any problem with it please contact me directly. And to be sure, KRT is fully Year-2000 compliant when used with operating system versions that are as well. KRT's new features and fixes include - o SET/SHOW CONTROL-CHARACTER as in C-Kermit were added. This speeds up transfers of binary data as it reduces the need for control character quoting which requires two bytes to transmit each one. See HELP SET CONTROL-CHAR for an in-depth discussion regarding how to use it. o KRT's file name conversion code now accomodates various previously troublesome Unix file names such as .x. or .x: or ..x. which were being erronously considered as implicitly wildcarded or a device or path name. All previously undefined characters possible in such file names are now processed correctly. o In support of the above SET FILE WILDCARDS is now available within KRT. The default is IMPLICIT, as it always has been in K11 and KRT. EXPLICIT requires the user to actually enter wildcard characters. This does not modify the RT-11 or TSX-Plus setting and allows renaming Unix files with a leading dot in the same command used to get them. o User specified file sizes, as in FILENAME[size], are now supported and sizes are now displayed when sending or receiving files. Note that for text files from foreign systems KRT adds 25% to the received size to accomodate differing line termination schemes, and this increased size is what will be displayed even though the file will most likely be closed later at some smaller number of blocks. If this increase exceeds the currently available free space even though the file would fit its exact size may now be passed to KRT in the GET command. o The contents of SEND FILE ACK and RECEIVE FILE ACK packets, such as a file name returned by the remote Kermit, and the file type (ASCII, Binary) are now displayed during file transfers. o An error packet is now sent to the other Kermit when appropriate (as when a write to a local file fails) so the transfer is properly aborted. o A warning message is now displayed when receiving an empty file so the user will know why no data were transfered. o Under TSX-Plus EMT 114 is now used for output when using TT as the link device. This is a very noticable difference. As the TSX docs say ttyout loops are not handled very efficiently.. o Transmitted and received file attributes may now be individually disabled. These additions are documented in HELP SET ATTRIBUTES and are useful when another Kermit has trouble with some but not all of them. o A dummy file name is now included when opening LP as the log file for more recent versions of RT-11 that expect to see something there. Receiving a file to LP is also now possible. As in the past LP must either be spooled or extremely fast to serve as the log device. o The test for a Line Time Clock was modified to accomodate QED's fast machines, per a suggestion from Alan Sieving of QED. It now completes as fast as possible regardless of machine type. Previously the QED CPUs finished the delay loop in less than one clock tick. o The use of a quoted string to place a blank at end of prompt string, as in SET PROMPT "Kermit-11> ", is now supported. o The command line input buffer has been increased to 132 bytes in the EIS assembly only. This accomodates long lines in take files and of course also works for keyboard input. This invloved fixing all possible sign extension problems and it's now possible to make LN$MAX <= 255. As distributed KRTTSX is built with EIS instructions and KRT is not. o A T3000X.42 modem definition for XOFF restraint with this modem was added. Note that S48 must be set to 0 or the modem will NOT do XOFF restraint, regardless of what the modem docs say, at least in the command mode and sometimes when on-line to another modem as well. This is a bug in the modem itself and is the reason hardware flow control was added to the KM handler. o REMOTE commands now display the reasons for retries as each occurs. An error packet is now sent when giving up to stop any possible lingering activity at the other end. o Repeated char encoding is now done on REMOTE command arguments. This makes a big difference for a command like REMOTE DELETE *~ sent to a Unix system, which without repeat encoding becomes 'rm *' after going though C-Kermit and thus hoses everything. Eight-bit quoting is also now done here when parity is in use. o CD/CWD and REMOTE CD/CWD will now operate without an argument. RT-11 and TSX assigns are now tested for illegal string lengths as well. o REMOTE WHO now passes arguments to the remote host. Some hosts support this, such as VMS where it's really handy on a busy system. o DAYTIME and SHOW DAYTIME commands were added. o The first data packet is now actually rebuilt when resizing due to its failing so the next retry is actually done with the smaller sized packet. In the past the reduction wasn't done until the next packet was sent, which is of course too late.. A rewind routine was restored in KRTRMS.MAC for use when resizing packets ala the above, which is more efficient then closing and reopening the file. o An error in testing for terminal emulator command characters after having SET CONSOLE 8-BIT is now fixed. o The packet data processing routine (BUFFIL) was moved back to the root for speed after cleaning up made space available for it once again. This means less calling of overlays and helps quite a bit when running on a floppies-only system. o A problem with the SET PHONE XMODE value specified in a SET CL PORTS string being overwritten by the default value in a modem definition was fixed. Now if a value is explicitly supplied it will prevail. o A problem with garbage sometimes being appended to a log file name was fixed. o An unpopped stack error on an error exit from BUFEMP (used to receive files) was fixed. This bug was introduced in V3.62 but there was no error checking at all before that.. o Any possibly lingering data from a modem is now flushed before again beginning dialing or redialing. o All source files have been thoroughly cleaned up and fully commented and the HELP text and .DOC files are completely caught up. All program data have been moved to the tops of their source modules to make foreign language translation as easy as possible. Billy Youdelman billy@MIX.COM 16-Oct-1997 17-Oct-97 19:25:52-GMT,2183;000000000011 Return-Path: Received: from cello.Opus1.COM (Cello.Opus1.COM [192.245.12.7]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA05178 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 15:25:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Opus1.COM by Opus1.COM (PMDF V5.1-9 #9830) id <01IOWUDMTY2OBP16Z4@Opus1.COM> for fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 12:25:30 MST Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 12:15:22 -0700 (MST) From: billy@MIX.COM Subject: Re: KRT V3.63 Announcement In-reply-to: "Your message dated Fri, 17 Oct 1997 11:27:40 -0400 (EDT)" Sender: Billy@MIX.COM To: Frank da Cruz Cc: billy@MIX.COM Message-id: <01IOWW1YBT56BP16Z4@Opus1.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Hi - > The files are all installed, the Web page is updated, etc. Here's one more little update for the PDP-11 web page, concerning the exact RT-11 monitors under which various versions of Kermit-11 will actually run. Don't know how I missed this before, sorry! Also note that the KRTMIN version is based on 3.62 (not a typo) as adding anything to it just makes it bigger and the goal with this one is to remain as small as possible. Thanks, Billy Y.. ------------------------------old text------------------------- k11xm.sav Kermit-11 3.60 for RT11 XM and TSX+ k11rt4.sav Kermit-11 3.60 for RT11 and TSX+ not for XM krt.sav Kermit-11 3.62 for RT11 XM and TSX+ krtmin.sav Kermit-11 3.62 for RT11 minimal version krttsx.sav Kermit-11 3.62 for TSX+ ------------------------------new text------------------------- k11xm.sav Kermit-11 3.60 for RT-11XM and TSX+ k11rt4.sav Kermit-11 3.60 for RT-11FB and TSX+ krt.sav Kermit-11 3.63 for RT-11FB/SB/SJ and TSX+ krtmin.sav Kermit-11 3.62 for RT-11FB/SB/SJ minimal version krttsx.sav Kermit-11 3.63 for RT-11XB/XM/ZB/ZM and TSX+ --------------------------end of changes----------------------- 4-Nov-97 2:27:07-GMT,5583;000000000015 Return-Path: <"xman::john"@egh.com> Received: from mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu (mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.35.143]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA08240 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 21:27:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from newman.egh.com (egh.tiac.net [206.119.76.136]) by mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA02894 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 21:27:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from egh.com (resend@newman.egh.com [206.119.76.136]) by newman.egh.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA20475 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 21:29:35 -0500 Received: by cousy.egh.com (MX V4.1 VAX) id 1; Mon, 03 Nov 1997 21:04:26 EST Sender: "xman::john"@egh.com Date: Mon, 03 Nov 1997 21:04:26 EST From: John Santos <"xman::john"@egh.com> Reply-To: <"xman::john"@egh.com> To: X-VMSmail-To: COUSY::SMTP%"kermit-support@columbia.edu" X-VMSmail-CC: JOHN Message-ID: <009BCC24.87EB9E7A.1@cousy.egh.com> Subject: Re: Should \Fcontents() work with OUTPUT? Hi, Frank: > See the description of the OUTPUT command on page 420. It has > special codes for NUL, BREAK, and Long BREAK. > Yup, I had found this, but it does say you can use the functions in Chapter 18 in the text. In some sense, this is true; \Fcontents(\%x) is being replaced by the contents of %x, but then apparently during output, the \-n substitution gets done. \Fcontents does suppress variable substition, though. If you just output \%x, (without the \Fcontents), the backslash quotes the n during symbol substitution, so any coincidental variable or function substitution gets done, but the backslash-n doesn't get converted to a ! To output a from a variable, it seems it the "n" must have 2 backslashes in front of it... I guess from the behaviour, there are two substitution passes. The first pass does all the normal substitutions (variables, functions, backslash digits, etc.) and Fcontents() suppresses this pass. The second pass is peculiar to OUTPUT, and substitutes breaks, long breaks, and nulls. Fcontents doesn't suppress the 2nd pass. This is the kind of situation which makes my brain hurt ;-) It reminds me of the DCL quote-quote-quote-quote-quote syndrom. [snip] > > We can think of a couple of work-arounds, if this is a > > feature, not a bug. (1: scan the text for backslashes and > > double them; 2: extract blocks of text we want to send into > > a series of files, and TRANSMIT them...) > > > OK, this is an unforeseen scenario, and a tough one. Workaround > (1) won't work as you expect -- Okay, I confess. The application is our mail firewall; we are conecting with Kermit to our SMTP server and sending it the mail messages. The rest of the line above got eaten! > (similarly for B and L) are VERY special in OUTPUT commands. > > Workaround (2) is OK, but a royal pain. > > I think the solution is to add a new command like SET OUTPUT > TRANSPARENT to make it skip the The rest of this line disappeared, too. I think the SMTP server saw a and treated it as end-of-string, and ignored the rest of the line. > solution in Alpha.08. > >From my experimenting, it looks like blindly stuffing backslashes would usually work, but I'm not sure that it will ALWAYS work. I think solution 2) would be easier. Also, we are actually doing OUTPUT \Fcontents(\%x)\13 to send a after each line; would SET OUTPUT TRANSPARENT supress the conversion of backslash-13 into a , or would it only affect nulls & breaks? > And in return... Any updates on the reconciliation of the two > KRTs? :-) > Our PDP-11 died on Oct 23, while I was in the middle of checking out the differences between Billy's latest sources and my last set, to see if it would cause any problems. I hadn't found anything so far, mostly just comments that reflected the latest version and edits. I hadn't gotten as far as actually trying to build it on RSTS yet. I have all the sources on our VAX, so I can continue doing the source comparisons, but probably won't be able to test anything. Fixing the PDP is a real low priority for my company; we hardly have any customers still using PDP's, and all the PDP's are going away Real Soon Now (probably in about a year), so I can only work on it in my spare time. I did get it working for a while on Saturday (it stayed up for about an hour), but then I replaced some dead fans, and it wouldn't boot afterwards. I think it is a power supply problem; it is getting power-fail traps about 30 seconds into the bootstrap, at random. (Once it stayed up almost long enough to log in, but usually it dies long before it gets that far.) So, I don't think it is hopeless, but it could be a long time before I can devote the time to fix it. If worst comes to worst, I could probably build KRT on one of our customer's systems (I would need to get permission, first), but testing it is problematical without physical access to ports, modems, etc. I've been meaning to let you and Billy know about this situation, but every time I turn around, it changes. 1st they tell me that no one really needs the PDP anymore, so don't waste time mucking with it. Then someone tells me they need it urgently. I get it working (briefly), and they tell me "I don't need it anymore. I did something else..." So if it costs any money to get the PDP-11 fixed, it might or might not happen. I wonder if I can get a copy of one of the PDP-11 emulators up on my PC at home and run RSTS under it? > - Frank > - John 4-Nov-97 15:46:46-GMT,3956;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: (from fdc@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA05379; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 10:46:39 -0500 (EST) Sender: Frank da Cruz Date: Tue, 4 Nov 97 10:46:39 EST From: Kermit Software Support To: <"xman::john"@egh.com> Subject: Re: Should \Fcontents() work with OUTPUT? In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 03 Nov 1997 21:04:26 EST Cc: kermit-support@columbia.edu, John Santos Reply-To: kermit-support@columbia.edu Message-ID: > > See the description of the OUTPUT command on page 420. It has > > special codes for NUL, BREAK, and Long BREAK. > > > Yup, I had found this, but it does say you can use the functions in > Chapter 18 in the text. In some sense, this is true; \Fcontents(\%x) > is being replaced by the contents of %x, but then apparently during > output, the \-n substitution gets done. \Fcontents does suppress > variable substition, though. > Right. > If you just output \%x, (without the \Fcontents), the backslash quotes > the n during symbol substitution, so any coincidental variable or > function substitution gets done, but the backslash-n doesn't get > converted to a ! > Right. > To output a from a variable, it seems it the "n" must have 2 > backslashes in front of it... > I told you this was tricky. Why don't you have a look at dooutput() in ckuus4.c if you want to see *how* tricky. Meanwhile, forget about even thinking about trying work around this. Like I said, I'll have to add a new command that disables \N, \\N, \\\N, and \\\\N (etc) in OUTPUT commands. > From my experimenting, it looks like blindly stuffing backslashes would > usually work, but I'm not sure that it will ALWAYS work. I think > solution 2) would be easier. > Just wait for Alpha.08. > Also, we are actually doing OUTPUT \Fcontents(\%x)\13 to send a > after each line; would SET OUTPUT TRANSPARENT supress the conversion > of backslash-13 into a , or would it only affect nulls & breaks? > It would only affect NULs and BREAKs. > Our PDP-11 died on Oct 23... > Oh well. Still, I'll bet if you posted a message on the pdp11 newsgroup, you'd probably find lots of people who'd be glad to send you a new one, especially since so many people these days are posting messages looking for a new home for a loved but unneeded -11. Or even broken ones you can use for spare parts. > I've been meaning to let you and Billy know about this situation, but > every time I turn around, it changes. 1st they tell me that > no one really needs the PDP anymore, so don't waste time mucking > with it. Then someone tells me they need it urgently. > The latter always happens when you least expect it, and it is often from somebody you really want to help, like some scientists stranded in Anarctica (this really happened once -- they lost their copy of PDP-11 Kermit and it was their only link to the outside world), some hospital with their CAT or MRI scanners, etc. > I wonder if I can get a copy of one of the PDP-11 emulators up on > my PC at home and run RSTS under it? > I saw a reference to one of them recently: From: wilson@dbit.com (John Wilson) Newsgroups: vmsnet.pdp-11,alt.sys.pdp11,comp.os.rsts,comp.emulators.misc Subject: Ersatz-11 Demo V2.0 Date: 21 Jul 1997 02:44:15 GMT Organization: D Bit, Troy, NY At long last, V2.0 of the Ersatz-11 Demo is finally ready! Ersatz-11 (a.k.a. E11) is a PDP-11 emulator that runs on 80x86 machines under DOS (or in a Windows DOS box), and emulates a range of PDP-11 models. On a midrange Pentium, it runs at approximately twice the speed of a PDP-11/93; the exact speed depends on the application. The demo version is available from FTP.DBIT.COM in directory /pub/e11. It may be used for unlimited personal/hobby use, commercial use is limited to a 30-day evaluation period. - Frank 5-Dec-97 17:42:46-GMT,2253;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: (from fdc@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA23592 for fdc; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:42:45 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:42:45 -0500 (EST) From: Frank da Cruz Message-Id: <199712051742.MAA23592@watsun.cc.columbia.edu> To: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!164.67.42.145!awabi.library.ucla.edu!137.82.194.1!unixg.ubc.ca!alph02.triumf.ca!shoppa From: shoppa@alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,comp.sys.dec,vmsnet.pdp-11,alt.sys.pdp11 Subject: Re: Y2K, PDP11/04 with RT11 ? Date: 4 Dec 1997 22:20:01 GMT Organization: TRIUMF, Canada's National Meson Facility Lines: 27 Message-ID: <667aah$7kb$1@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca> References: <66771g$8nu$1@o.online.no> NNTP-Posting-Host: alph02.triumf.ca Xref: news.columbia.edu comp.os.vms:166344 comp.sys.dec:58168 vmsnet.pdp-11:8713 alt.sys.pdp11:3136 In article <66771g$8nu$1@o.online.no>, haugstad wrote: >Does anyone know, is PDP11/04 and RT11 Y2K compliant ? >Have anyone tried such system with dates after year 2000 ? It depends on what version of RT-11 you're running. Versions before 5.6 won't display or accept years after 1999. In 5.6, the monitors became "aware" of years through 2099, and in 5.7 all the standard system utilities had support for 21st century dates added. (Some other 5.6 bugs were fixed, too, in 5.7.) Of course, any applications you're currently running will probably have to be updated for 2000-2099 support, but that's your problem. If you've got the source, it's straightforward. Naturally, if none of your applications really depend on the system date, you can just remain in the 20th century while the rest of the world goes into the 21st. That's your decision, and in some cases it may, indeed, be the most prudent decision. Stuart Brook and Chip Charlotte at Mentec are the folks who can tell you how to get RT-11 5.7. It does run on a PDP-11/04, though one issue you may have to deal with on non-extended-memory CPU's like your 11/04 is the replacement of the SJ monitor with SB. Good places to discuss RT-11 issues are "vmsnet.pdp-11" and "alt.sys.pdp11". Tim. (shoppa@triumf.ca) 17-Dec-97 15:03:53-GMT,1981;000000000401 Return-Path: Received: from mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu (mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.35.143]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA16793 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 10:03:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from pgh.nauticom.net (pgh.nauticom.net [198.190.226.3]) by mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA15889 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 10:03:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from cnoll.nauticom.net (15.net7.nauticom.net [204.171.126.15]) by pgh.nauticom.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA00174 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 10:04:25 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3497E970.700A@corpjet.com> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 10:02:08 -0500 From: Chuck Noll Reply-To: cnoll@corpjet.com Organization: Corporate Jets, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: kermit-support@columbia.edu Subject: Kermit on PDP-11 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have just received my kermit tape and loaded the files onto a DEC PDP-11 computer running version 9.5 of RSTS/E. I need to get the non-resident version of kermit running(k11nrs). I am having problems creating a task image(k11nrs.tsk) from the hex file(k11nrs.hex). According to the documentation, I should switch my keyboard monitor to basic, which I do, and the bring in the kermit hex conversion program(old k11hex). When I do this I get the following error messages. ?Line too long, This is displayed 10 times followed by : ?End of file on device If I then run k11hex, I just get another monitor prompt. I believe that my basic was generated for 4-word Basic. I only have two users left on this beast, however, I need to get files off of this system periodically to load on to our accounting system on another platform. Can you please help ? Thank you Chuck Noll MIS Director Corporate Jets, Inc. cnoll@corpjet.com 19-Dec-97 7:07:16-GMT,8621;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from newman.egh.com (egh.tiac.net [206.119.76.136]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id CAA10632 for ; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 02:07:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from egh.com (resend@newman.egh.com [206.119.76.136]) by newman.egh.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id DAA01299 for ; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 03:11:23 -0500 Received: from XMAN.egh.com by XMAN.egh.com (MX V4.1 AXP) with SMTP; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 00:57:39 EST Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 00:57:38 -0500 From: John Santos To: Frank da Cruz , Chuck Noll Subject: Re: [Chuck Noll : Kermit on PDP-11] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 17 Dec 1997, Frank da Cruz wrote: > Can you help this poor guy? > > Thanks! > > - Frank > > Date: Wed, 17Dec 1997 10:02:08 -0500 > From: Chuck Noll > Reply-To:cnoll@corpjet.com > Organization: Corporate Jets, Inc. > To:kermit-support@columbia.edu > Subject: Kermit on PDP-11 > > I have just received my kermit tape and loaded the files onto a DEC > PDP-11 computer running version 9.5 of RSTS/E. I need to get the > non-resident version of kermit running(k11nrs). I am having problems > creating a task image(k11nrs.tsk) from the hex file(k11nrs.hex). > > According to the documentation, I should switch my keyboard monitor to > basic, which I do, and the bring in the kermit hex conversion > program(old k11hex). When I do this I get the following error messages. > > ?Line too long, This is displayed 10 times followed by : > ?End of file on device > > If I then run k11hex, I just get another monitor prompt. > > I believe that my basic was generated for 4-word Basic. > > I only have two users left on this beast, however, I need to get files > off of this system periodically to load on to our accounting system on > another platform. > > Can you please help ? > > Thank you > > Chuck Noll > MIS Director > Corporate Jets, Inc. > cnoll@corpjet.com > > I think what is happening here is the file got transfered in binary mode rather than in test mode. Did you copy the file from the Kermit distribution tape on the RSTS/E system, or did you download it some other way? If it copied from the tape this way, then probably your stuck and will have to fix the file. If you sent it via DECnet or some other transfer method, the easiest fix is to send it again in text mode. If you can't do this, then there are several possibilities. Make a safe copy of the file before you mess with it. TECO (or another text editor) might fix it for you. If the file came from a VMS or RSX system, and has attributes ($ dir/full), this will probably fix it. If the file came from a VMS or RSX system, and *SHOULD* have attributes, but doesn't, then the best thing to do is add the attributes, then run it through a text editor to convert it to stream-ascii (TECO wil do this by default. EDT will probably work too.) Adding the attributes is a simple SYS() call, but you need to know the right values. It might be easiest to see and work with the attributes in octal: PIP K11HEX.BAS/LI:S:OA produces Name .Typ Size Prot Access Date Time Clu RTS Pos SY:[18,0] K11HEX.BAS 6 < 56> 19-Dec-97 18-Dec-97 10:55 PM 1 0 001002 000100 000000 000007 000000 000006 000126 RF:VAR FO:SEQ USED:6:86 RECSI:64 CC:IMP The 1st number is the record format (variable sequential), the 000100 is the longest record length (happens to be 64 for my version of k11hex.bas, but it might be different for you version. I don't think it hurts to set it to an appropriately large value, such as 80 or 132 (120 or 204 octal, respectively). The 7 is the allocation; it should be set to the filesize rounded to the next cluster (or larger), the 6 and the 126 are the last block in use and the offset of the last byte in the last block. These numbers are difficult to determine, but you can just set the last block in use to be the filesize + 1, and the last byte to 0. The two zero's (000000) in the middle are the high words of the allocation and size, and should be 0 for such a small file. The syscall to set attributes is B$=SYS(CHR$(6%)+CHR$(-25%)+CHR$(1%)+CHR$(11%)+ cvt%$(atr1%)+cvt%$(atr2%)+...) I'm not sure if you need to swap the bytes of the atr% words. After you get the right attributes on the file, run it through TECO or EDT to make a stream text file, and BASIC should be satisfied. If the file came from a UNIX system, it probably has no attributes, but has between the lines instead of . You can fix this in TECO by editing the file and doing an $>$$ (where the $'s are escapes, and the is the return key. The open and close angle brackets are TECO commands; the tell it to repeat the command until the FS search-and-replace fails. The "^J" is literally an up-arrow followed by a J, which means to TECO a control/j, which is a line-feed, but ctrl/j itself or the linefeed key would work also. If the file came from a Mac, then it might have instead of , so you could use a similar TECO command $>$$ to fix it. It is possible to do this in EDT as well, but I don't know how. If the file came from a MS-DOS system, it should be okay. I think DOS uses . Just in case you have a way of extracting from e-mail, and getting it to your RSTS/E system, here's the source of K11HEX.BAS, just downloaded from columbia's FTP server: ============================================================= 10 extend 20 ! 04-Mar-84 23:15:56 Brian Nelson 1000 on error go to 19000 & \ dim xl%(128%) & \ input.recordsize% = 4096% & \ output.recordsize% = 512% & \ open '_kb:' as file 12% & \ print 'K11HEX - Decode Kermit-11 Hex files (RSTS/E Basic+)' & \ print & \ xl%(i%) = -1% for i% = 0% to 128% & \ xl%(ascii('0')) = 0% & \ xl%(ascii('1')) = 1% & \ xl%(ascii('2')) = 2% & \ xl%(ascii('3')) = 3% & \ xl%(ascii('4')) = 4% & \ xl%(ascii('5')) = 5% & \ xl%(ascii('6')) = 6% & \ xl%(ascii('7')) = 7% & \ xl%(ascii('8')) = 8% & \ xl%(ascii('9')) = 9% & \ xl%(ascii('A')) = 10% & \ xl%(ascii('B')) = 11% & \ xl%(ascii('C')) = 12% & \ xl%(ascii('D')) = 13% & \ xl%(ascii('E')) = 14% & \ xl%(ascii('F')) = 15% & 1020 print 'Input Hex file ? '; & \ input line #12%, infile$ & \ print 'Output Task image ? '; & \ input line #12%, outfile$ & \ open.in% = 0% & \ open.out% = 0% & \ infile$ = cvt$$(infile$,-1%) & \ outfile$ = cvt$$(outfile$,-1%) & \ open infile$ for input as file #1%, & recordsize input.recordsize%, & mode 8192% & \ open outfile$ as file #2%, recordsize output.recordsize% & 1040 while -1% & \ offset% = 0% & \ for i% = 1% to 16% & \ input line #1, rec$ & \ chk% = 0% & \ for j% = 1% to 32% & \ k% = (j% * 2%) - 1% & \ b% = xl%( ascii(mid(rec$,k%+0%,1%)) ) * 16% & + xl%( ascii(mid(rec$,k%+1%,1%)) ) & \ chk% = chk% + b% & \ field #2%, offset%+(j%-1%) as junk$, 1% as dat$ & \ lset dat$ = chr$(b%) & \ next j% & \ c$ = right(rec$,66%) & \ check% = xl%( ascii(mid(c$,6%,1%)) ) & + xl%( ascii(mid(c$,5%,1%)) ) * 16% & + xl%( ascii(mid(c$,4%,1%)) ) * 256% & + xl%( ascii(mid(c$,3%,1%)) ) * 4096% & \ print 'Checksum error - ';chk%,check% & if chk% <> check% & \ offset% = offset% + 32% & \ next i% & \ put #2% & \ next 19000 er% = err & \ el% = erl & \ resume 19020 if er% = 11% & \ print er%;' error at line number ';,el% & \ resume 32767% & 19020 close #1% & \ close #2% & \ go to 32767 if el% <> 1040% & \ cmd$ = 'PIP ' + outfile$ + '<104>/RTS:RSX=' + outfile$ & \ print 'Trying to do CCL ';cmd$ & \ junk$ = sys(chr$(14%) + cmd$ ) & \ go to 32767 & 32767 end ============================================================= What worries me is that you may have the same problem with the format of the K11NRS.HEX file as you have with the K11HEX.BAS file, since they are both text files and presumably came from a common source. I hope this helps! John Santos 2-Jan-98 0:51:43-GMT,1761;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: (from fdc@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA04069 for fdc; Thu, 1 Jan 1998 19:51:43 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 19:51:43 -0500 (EST) From: Frank da Cruz Message-Id: <199801020051.TAA04069@watsun.cc.columbia.edu> To: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!ais.net!newsfeed.concentric.net!global-news-master From: Stuart Brook Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec Subject: Re: RSX Year 2000 compliant? Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 13:29:28 -0700 Organization: Concentric Internet Services Lines: 31 Message-ID: <34ABFCA8.7E0E@concentric.net> References: <01bd162f$acba33c0$f308c0d0@balexander> Reply-To: sbrook@concentric.net NNTP-Posting-Host: ts001d19.col-co.concentric.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) To: Bo Xref: news.columbia.edu comp.sys.dec:58939 Bo wrote: > > We have a pdp11/73 running RSX (I think). Is this operating system > year 2000 compliant? We have a vendor trying to hold us up. Any > information will be greatly appreciated. > > Thank you > -- > Bo > > replace the " dot " in my address with a . Depends on the version of RSX ... RSX-11M+ V4.5, Micro/RSX V4.5, RSX-11M V4.7 are all year 2000 ready For more information look at http://www.mentec.com and follow the PDP-11 software links. We are currently working on new options for the RSX family with a possible new release. Stuart Brook PDP-11 Software Engineering Mentec Inc. (FYI Mentec acquired much of the PDP-11 software from Digital a few years ago and has been doing engineering since.) 20-Mar-98 3:39:23-GMT,4128;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu (mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.35.143]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA21427 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 22:39:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from newman.egh.com (egh.tiac.net [206.119.76.136]) by mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA19847 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 22:39:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from egh.com (resend@newman.egh.com [206.119.76.136]) by newman.egh.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA09697 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 23:44:53 -0500 Received: from XMAN.egh.com by XMAN.egh.com (MX V4.1 AXP) with SMTP; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 21:49:16 EST Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 21:34:15 -0500 From: John Santos To: kermit-support@columbia.edu CC: "Orzell,Daniel" , Billy Youdelman , Johnny Bilquist Subject: Re: FW: Kermit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 19 Mar 1998, Frank da Cruz wrote: [Original attribution lost...] > > > > When downloading a sequential file (files-11) from a PDP (RSX11M+ > > V4.2) KERMIT T3.49 cannot transmit ASCII records greater than 160 > > bytes. Records larger than 160 bytes can be down loaded in binary > > but the format is altered with unrecognizable characters at the > > beginning of each record. Is there any way of setting KERMIT to allow > > ASCII records greater than 160 bytes to be transmitted? Should we > > download as binary or text? How can we fix this problem? > > [snip] > > 3. Postprocess the files after transfer. > I'm not familiar with RSX's limitations with respect to Kermit, but it sounds like the files you are getting in binary mode probably have the RMS record length bytes, which are the junk you see at the beginning of each record. If worst comes to worst, and you have to write something to post-process the records on your PC, maybe this will help. Each record starts with a 2-byte length field. The low order byte is first. The length is followed immediately by the record. (For a text file, the records each consist of one line of text.) If the length is odd, there is a fill byte at the end so the next record starts on an even byte boundary. The fill byte is usually a zero, but I don't know if this is enforced. Usually, there is no explicit carriage control in the records (no CR or LF), but there is an implied before and after each record. This is equivalent to an implied after each record, except for the 1st and last records. (I think this funny business is historical, having to do with printing files on hardcopy terminals and saving paper. They didn't advance the paper until they absolutely had to.) For all pratical purposes, I think all RMS-text-file to stream-file converters just put a (I think this is right for DOS and Windows), or an (for Unix output), etc. after each record. Blank lines are caused by a pair of zero length bytes (which converts as a null data record followed by a . Finding the end-of-file is problematic. The true end-of-file is indicated by the RMS attributes, which would get lost on a binary transfer to DOS. Usually, the last block is filled out with 's, which would cause a whole bunch of blank lines at the end of the file. Sometimes there will be a record with both length bytes set to 255 at the end-of-file. This is equvalent to a record length of 65535 or -1, depending on whether you treat it as a signed or unsigned quantity. I've seen this dumping out some text files, but not others. Normally, the maximum legal record size in an RMS variable file (which is how RSX stores text files) is 32767, so anything with the sign bit set in the high byte of the record length would be normally be illegal. Hope this helps! John Santos 22-Mar-98 15:53:11-GMT,4051;000000000005 Return-Path: Received: from mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu (mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.35.143]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA10352 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 10:52:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from Zeke.Update.UU.SE (Zeke.Update.UU.SE [130.238.11.14]) by mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA19376 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 10:52:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (bqt@localhost) by Zeke.Update.UU.SE (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA23578; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 16:52:39 +0100 Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 16:52:38 +0100 (MET) From: Johnny Billquist To: kermit-support@columbia.edu cc: "Orzell,Daniel" , Billy Youdelman , John Santos Subject: Re: FW: Kermit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 19 Mar 1998, Frank da Cruz wrote: > > Please let me know if you can help us out with the problem below. We > > need to transfer files from our PDP-11 to our PC in a text format. > > Any help you could provide would be most beneficial. We are using > > WinComm Pro V. 1.1 as our PC Emulation Package. We have just ordered > > Kermit 95 and will be using this to download from now on. > > > > From: Miller,Paul S > > To: Orzell,Daniel > > Subject: Kermit > > Date: Thursday, March 19, 1998 4:08PM > > > > Jamie, > > > > When downloading a sequential file (files-11) from a PDP (RSX11M+ > > V4.2) KERMIT T3.49 cannot transmit ASCII records greater than 160 > > bytes. Records larger than 160 bytes can be down loaded in binary > > but the format is altered with unrecognizable characters at the > > beginning of each record. Is there any way of setting KERMIT to allow > > ASCII records greater than 160 bytes to be transmitted? Should we > > download as binary or text? How can we fix this problem? > > > I hate to say it, but the RSX-11 version of Kermit has been an orphan for > almost 10 years now. My simpleminded guess would be that you would need to > redefine a constant somewhere that specifies the maximum "line" (record) > length for text lines and reassemble. If you can figure out how to do that, > it might do the trick. Failing that... > > 1. Upgrade to the latest (last) version of Kermit-11 > for RSX, T3.60, and see if it has a bigger line buffer. > See the PDP-11 section of our website: > > http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/pdp11.html > > 2. Preprocess the files before transfer. > > 3. Postprocess the files after transfer. > > I've cc'd this reply to some people who might be able to offer better > advice. I wish I could offer more help, but I've been lost in limbo for a while. However, the advice about getting a more recent version of KERMIT-11 is definitely good. And while still a very unofficial version, I do have something I called T3.61, which fixes an annoying attribute bug in K11 for RSX. I think it should be uploaded to Columbia (whenever I have the time to package the stuff...). KERMIT-11 for RSX is not currently actively supported by anoyone, though I have plans to do something about it. Note that there exist a PDP-11 KERMIT called KRT, which is only for RT-11 and RSTS/E. :-/ (That's where the RSX support should jump on the wagon.) Anyway, to get T3.61 of RSX KERMIT-11, try ftp.update.uu.se:/pub/pdp11 where you will find the two patches for T3.60 to get to T3.61. There is also the whole stuff there, as k11mit.tar.Z. I can also get you a binary if you are running M+ V3.0 or later on a split I/D machine. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol 23-Mar-98 19:29:39-GMT,3475;000000000011 Return-Path: Received: from cello.Opus1.COM (Cello.Opus1.COM [192.245.12.7]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA16812 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 14:26:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from Opus1.COM by Opus1.COM (PMDF V5.1-9 #9830) id <01IV075B4GV49N7MH0@Opus1.COM> for fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 12:25:54 MST Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 12:07:46 -0700 (MST) From: billy@MIX.COM Subject: KRT Release Notes for the RT-11 V.57 distribution Sender: Billy@MIX.COM To: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Cc: billy@MIX.COM Message-id: <01IV07SPHJSK9N7MH0@Opus1.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Hi - Appended is a short piece regarding KRT to be included in Mentec's RT-11 V5.7 Release Notes. Please look this over and let me know if it's all adequate as regards ensuring the Kermit Project maintains a proper interest in the distribution of its software - if any corrections or changes are needed just let me know. Thanks! Billy Y.. Kermit is a file transfer protocol availabile on an extremely wide range of data processing platforms. With the permission of Columbia University's Kermit Project and for your convenience the RT-11 Kermit communications software (KRT) is included in this distribution. Installation is quite simple, please see the file KRT.DOC in KRT363.DSK for complete details. KRT provides the following features and services - 1. File transfers to and from RT-11 via a serial line interface or the console port to any other system that has a Kermit implimentation of its own. If Kermit is not present on the other machine please contact kermit-support@columbia.edu or telephone +1 212 854 5126 for help locating a suitable version. 2. A telephone dialer which can support virtually any modem if it is not amongst those pre-defined. Fallback to the connected speed is supported for serial line interfaces that allow the speed to be modified. Unsuccessful calls may be retried automatically. 3. A very efficient terminal mode with which to attach yours to the remote system via the serial line interface. 4. Complete debugging facilities. In the rare event a problem is encountered various data may be logged to a file and/or displayed on the controlling terminal such that the cause may be easily located. 5. A very fast on-line HELP facility which details everything contained in KRT - operational questions may be quickly answered without leaving Kermit. 6. Floppy disk only or very small RT-11 systems may use a special version of KRT named KRTMIN which is much smaller at the expense of only comunicating through the RT-11 console port. This is provided in a separate logical disk named KRTMIN.DSK and described in the the file KRTMIN.DOC. 7. KRT and KRTMIN are both completely Year-2000 compliant. For an in-depth discussion of Kermit from its fundamentals through detailed descriptions of its operation and how best to use it please consult: "Kermit, A File Transfer Protocol" by Frank da Cruz, 1987 Digital Press, order number: EY-6705E-DP (in USA phone: 800 343-8321) Digital Press ISBN 0-932376-88-6, Prentice Hall ISBN 0-13-514753-0 KRT is a fully supported Kermit. This release (V3.63) has been thoroughly tested over a period of several years and extensively with RT-11 V5.7. If you encounter any bug or problem at all the maintainer would appreciate your reporting it, and it will be given prompt attention. 23-Mar-98 19:40:17-GMT,4148;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: (from fdc@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA20556; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 14:39:12 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 98 14:39:12 EST From: Frank da Cruz To: billy@MIX.COM Subject: Re: KRT Release Notes for the RT-11 V.57 distribution In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 23 Mar 1998 12:07:46 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: > Appended is a short piece regarding KRT to be included in Mentec's > RT-11 V5.7 Release Notes. Please look this over and let me know if > it's all adequate as regards ensuring the Kermit Project maintains > a proper interest in the distribution of its software - if any > corrections or changes are needed just let me know. > > Thanks! > Looks fine, just a couple small comments, plus updated & expanded contact info. > Kermit is a file transfer protocol availabile on an extremely wide range > of data processing platforms. With the permission of Columbia University's > Kermit Project and for your convenience the RT-11 Kermit communications > software (KRT) is included in this distribution. Installation is quite > simple, please see the file KRT.DOC in KRT363.DSK for complete details. > > KRT provides the following features and services - > > 1. File transfers to and from RT-11 via a serial line interface or > the console port to any other system that has a Kermit implimentation > implementation > of its own. If Kermit is not present on the other machine please > contact kermit-support@columbia.edu or telephone +1 212 854 5126 for > help locating a suitable version. > Here is the current contact info: Postal address: Telephone: The Kermit Project +1 212 854 3703 (Ordering Information) Columbia University +1 212 854 5126 ($25/call tech support) 612 West 115th Street +1 900 555 5595 ($2.50/minute tech support) New York NY 10025-7799 +1 212 663 8202 (Fax) USA +1 212 662 6442 (Alternate Fax) Email: Web: kermit@columbia.edu http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ kermit-orders@columbia.edu http://kermit-project.org/ kermit-support@columbia.edu > 2. A telephone dialer which can support virtually any modem if it > is not amongst those pre-defined. > Or even if it is! > Fallback to the connected speed > is supported for serial line interfaces that allow the speed to be > modified. Unsuccessful calls may be retried automatically. > > 3. A very efficient terminal mode with which to attach yours to the > remote system via the serial line interface. > > 4. Complete debugging facilities. In the rare event a problem is > encountered various data may be logged to a file and/or displayed on > the controlling terminal such that the cause may be easily located. > > 5. A very fast on-line HELP facility which details everything > contained in KRT - operational questions may be quickly answered > without leaving Kermit. > > 6. Floppy disk only or very small RT-11 systems may use a special > version of KRT named KRTMIN which is much smaller at the expense of > only comunicating through the RT-11 console port. This is provided > in a separate logical disk named KRTMIN.DSK and described in the > the file KRTMIN.DOC. > > 7. KRT and KRTMIN are both completely Year-2000 compliant. > Assuming RT version xxxx or higher... > For an in-depth discussion of Kermit from its fundamentals through > detailed descriptions of its operation and how best to use it please > consult: > > "Kermit, A File Transfer Protocol" by Frank da Cruz, 1987 > Digital Press, order number: EY-6705E-DP (in USA phone: 800 343-8321) > Digital Press ISBN 0-932376-88-6, Prentice Hall ISBN 0-13-514753-0 > > KRT is a fully supported Kermit. This release (V3.63) has been > thoroughly tested over a period of several years and extensively > with RT-11 V5.7. If you encounter any bug or problem at all the > maintainer would appreciate your reporting it, and it will be > given prompt attention. Looks great, thanks! - Frank 8-May-98 13:54:38-GMT,2225;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: (from fdc@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA14116; Fri, 8 May 1998 09:53:11 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 8 May 98 9:53:10 EDT From: Frank da Cruz To: "Barry L. Goode" cc: Billy Youdelman , Johnny Billquist , John Santos , kermit-support@columbia.edu Reply-to: kermit-support@columbia.edu Subject: Re: k95-kermit11 exchange In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 7 May 1998 22:27:46 -0400 Message-ID: > I have a pdp11 running Kermit11 v 3.59. > On RSX? > I need to transfer files = to the > W95 OS so I bought k95(ser #k95-00008193810-1.1). I have had no luck xfering > the files while keeping the original DEC PDP11 long file format of 9.3;1---- > I called your 2.50$/min 900 number and talked to somebody that actually said > "a pdp what??". > He's young. 99% of our calls are about current products; when he gets a call he can't handle, he bounces it to us older guys, which is what he did. As Jeff pointed out, you're not going to be able to find too many people who know about PDP-11s who will take a job answering phones. > Included is packet.log file for somebody that actually knows > Kermit to view. I purchased k95 by the promise of LONG FILE NAME > capability and if this not possible can I return the product for a refund?? > > I've tried it on a couple of PCs -- same results. Is this suppose to be a > mature product? > As Jeff observed, it's Kermit-11 that is chopping off the filename, not K95. And as you can see at the PDP-11 section of our website: http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/pdp11.html the RSX version has not had any attention in about 10 years, due to lack of programmers who are both willing and able to work on it (the RT and RSTS versions have fared better). I'm cc'ing this to some PDP-11 aficionados in case they can offer any hints on how to get Kermit-11 on RSX to send the full file name. As a final resort, you can look in the Kermit-11 source code and find the place where the name is converted, remove that code, and rebuild. If this interests you, let me know. - Frank 8-May-98 18:14:54-GMT,2204;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from cello.Opus1.COM (Cello.Opus1.COM [192.245.12.7]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA11336 for ; Fri, 8 May 1998 14:14:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Opus1.COM by Opus1.COM (PMDF V5.1-9 #9830) id <01IWSDC4R50W970UD9@Opus1.COM> for fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Fri, 8 May 1998 11:14:51 MST Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 10:41:44 -0700 (MST) From: billy@MIX.COM Subject: Re: k95-kermit11 exchange In-reply-to: "Your message dated Fri, 08 May 1998 09:53:10 -0400 (EDT)" Sender: Billy@MIX.COM To: "Barry L. Goode" Cc: Frank da Cruz , Billy Youdelman , Johnny Billquist , John Santos , kermit-support@columbia.edu Message-id: <01IWSEQHJ8IA970UD9@Opus1.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Hi - > > I have had no luck xfering > > the files while keeping the original DEC PDP11 long file format of 9.3;1---- ^^^^^^ If you want to preserve the version numbers of files ... > As Jeff observed, it's Kermit-11 that is chopping off the filename, not K95. Kermit-11 would have to be patched and rebuilt to accomplish this. The source module involved is K11CVT.MAC - near the top of it you'll see this - chtype 0 ,1 ; exit on null chtype 15 ,1 ; exit on chtype 73 ,1 ; exit on ';' The last line shown above would become - chtype 73 ,7 ; treat ';' as a valid character There may also be some other code that needs patching, I maintain the RT-11 Kermit but I don't have RSX and thus I'm not familiar with the RSX-specific modules of Kermit-11, but I suspect this is the only place in it that deals with the version component of the file name. For those CC'd here K11CVT.MAC became KRTCVT.MAC but this part of it remains essentially the same - chtype scolon ,1 ; exit on ";" version delimiter Regards, Billy Y.. 10-May-98 12:14:26-GMT,3404;000000000005 Return-Path: Received: from mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu (mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.35.143]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA12309 for ; Sun, 10 May 1998 08:14:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Zeke.Update.UU.SE (Zeke.Update.UU.SE [130.238.11.14]) by mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA08111 for ; Sun, 10 May 1998 08:14:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (bqt@localhost) by Zeke.Update.UU.SE (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA00605; Sun, 10 May 1998 14:14:19 +0200 Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 14:14:17 +0200 (MET DST) From: Johnny Billquist To: kermit-support@columbia.edu cc: "Barry L. Goode" , Billy Youdelman , John Santos Subject: Re: k95-kermit11 exchange In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > Included is packet.log file for somebody that actually knows > > Kermit to view. I purchased k95 by the promise of LONG FILE NAME > > capability and if this not possible can I return the product for a refund?? > > > > I've tried it on a couple of PCs -- same results. Is this suppose to be a > > mature product? > > > As Jeff observed, it's Kermit-11 that is chopping off the filename, not K95. > > And as you can see at the PDP-11 section of our website: > > http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/pdp11.html > > the RSX version has not had any attention in about 10 years, due to lack of > programmers who are both willing and able to work on it (the RT and RSTS > versions have fared better). > > I'm cc'ing this to some PDP-11 aficionados in case they can offer any hints > on how to get Kermit-11 on RSX to send the full file name. > > As a final resort, you can look in the Kermit-11 source code and find the > place where the name is converted, remove that code, and rebuild. If this > interests you, let me know. First of all. I just tried sending a 9+3 character named file from RSX to Unix, and it worked just fine. No chopping took place. The filename was converted to lowercase, but that's something from c-kermit. So don't go blame Kermit-11 here. :-) Second, Kermit-11 accepts two arguments to put, the second being the name of the file at the remote end. Kermit-11 don't do anything with this name, you can put lots of "funny" stuff here without problems. I tried a very long filename here, without any problems. I'm sorry that I cannot help any more, but these were observations just made on my local RSX system, connected to a Unix system. The version I'm using is my local T3.61. The last official version is T3.60, I believe. Start up at least upgrading the the latest available version. You can also get T3.61 from ftp.update.uu.se, even though it isn't really official, supported or anything else. It's just T3.60 with a bugfix for zero length attribute packets, which cased Kermit-11 to crash. (I know, it should make its way to columbia...) Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol 10-May-98 22:26:49-GMT,1986;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from Zeke.Update.UU.SE (Zeke.Update.UU.SE [130.238.11.14]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA22160 for ; Sun, 10 May 1998 18:26:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (bqt@localhost) by Zeke.Update.UU.SE (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA13771; Mon, 11 May 1998 00:26:45 +0200 Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 00:26:42 +0200 (MET DST) From: Johnny Billquist To: kermit-support@watsun.cc.columbia.edu cc: kermit-support@columbia.edu, "Barry L. Goode" , Billy Youdelman , John Santos Subject: Re: k95-kermit11 exchange In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > First of all. I just tried sending a 9+3 character named file from RSX to > > Unix, and it worked just fine. No chopping took place. > > The filename was converted to lowercase, but that's something from > > c-kermit. So don't go blame Kermit-11 here. :-) > > The questions is: "can you send the +1"? It is the version info that > is being chopped. > > The C-Kermit conversion can be prevented by specifying SET FILE NAMES > LITERAL. Aha! Sorry. My mistake. I got the impression that it chopped off one letter. Billy has already answered the stuff about modifying the Kermit-11 code. File version numbering isn't really a part of the filename proper, so that's why it is stripped off normally. One could ask what the result ought to be of ;0, which semantically means the latest version, and ;-1, which means the oldest version... Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol 10-May-98 22:26:49-GMT,1986;000000000005 Return-Path: Received: from Zeke.Update.UU.SE (Zeke.Update.UU.SE [130.238.11.14]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA22160 for ; Sun, 10 May 1998 18:26:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (bqt@localhost) by Zeke.Update.UU.SE (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA13771; Mon, 11 May 1998 00:26:45 +0200 Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 00:26:42 +0200 (MET DST) From: Johnny Billquist To: kermit-support@watsun.cc.columbia.edu cc: kermit-support@columbia.edu, "Barry L. Goode" , Billy Youdelman , John Santos Subject: Re: k95-kermit11 exchange In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > First of all. I just tried sending a 9+3 character named file from RSX to > > Unix, and it worked just fine. No chopping took place. > > The filename was converted to lowercase, but that's something from > > c-kermit. So don't go blame Kermit-11 here. :-) > > The questions is: "can you send the +1"? It is the version info that > is being chopped. > > The C-Kermit conversion can be prevented by specifying SET FILE NAMES > LITERAL. Aha! Sorry. My mistake. I got the impression that it chopped off one letter. Billy has already answered the stuff about modifying the Kermit-11 code. File version numbering isn't really a part of the filename proper, so that's why it is stripped off normally. One could ask what the result ought to be of ;0, which semantically means the latest version, and ;-1, which means the oldest version... Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol 28-Jan-98 18:35:54-GMT,1785;000000000005 Return-Path: Received: (from fdc@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA05792 for fdc; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 13:35:53 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 13:35:53 -0500 (EST) From: Frank da Cruz Message-Id: <199801281835.NAA05792@watsun.cc.columbia.edu> To: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Newsgroups: comp.os.rsts Subject: Re: Compaq to develop PC-RSTS/E References: <6anhkb$aqa4@baker.se.mediaone.net> Organization: D Bit, Troy, NY From: wilson@dbit.com (John Wilson) NNTP-Posting-Host: dbit.dbit.com Message-ID: <34cf7624.0@news.wizvax.net> Date: 28 Jan 98 18:17:08 GMT Lines: 20 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!howland.erols.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!baron.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!newsfeed.wizvax.net!news.wizvax.net!dbit.com!wilson Xref: news.columbia.edu comp.os.rsts:1005 In article <6anhkb$aqa4@baker.se.mediaone.net>, Charlie Byrne wrote: >I'm hearing rumors Compaq may bring back RSTS and put it on PC's. > >Just think what you could do on a home machine with 32 Meg. 32K used to be >enough! > >PS: Don't tell anyone but just kidding about those rumors. Joking aside, RSTS already runs great on PCs with a good PDP-11 emulator. The free demo version of my E11 emulator is on www.dbit.com and can emulate a modest 11/44, 11/70 etc. system well enough to run 2 or 3 users nicely under RSTS. The full commercial version will be released very shortly and is at least triple 11/94 speed on a high-end P II (and can do better, depending), supports multi-serial boards and raw SCSI disks/tapes and should be a nice upgrade to any RSTS system. It's just spooky seeing "Option: " pop up on a PC's screen w/o hearing any roaring fans and disk motors nearby... John Wilson D Bit 28-Jul-98 14:26:26-GMT,3269;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: (from fdc@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA27218 for fdc; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 10:26:26 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 10:26:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Frank da Cruz Message-Id: <199807281426.KAA27218@watsun.cc.columbia.edu> To: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!199.0.65.142!news-feed1.tiac.net!posterchild2!newman.egh.com!john From: "John A. Santos" Newsgroups: comp.os.rsts Subject: Re: rsts v6c Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 20:21:34 -0400 Organization: The Internet Access Company, Inc. Lines: 50 Distribution: inet Message-ID: References: <6p9v12$552$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6pahbd$q3f$1@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: egh.tiac.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In-Reply-To: <6pahbd$q3f$1@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Xref: news.columbia.edu comp.os.rsts:1119 On 24 Jul 1998, Frank da Cruz wrote: > In article <6p9v12$552$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, wrote: > : Does anyone have any ideas concerning moving data back & forth between RSTS > : 6c & "Intel" pc's. Ones I have considered: 1. 9-t mag tape, have on rsts but > : $1000 for pc card 2. network, have on pc's, have deuna for 11 but drivers > : don't exist for v6c 3. binary transfer, currently do but some bugs, also rsts > : very slow ie 4800 baud 4. unibus - pc bus interface, $$ if avail + software > : expertise needed 5. just rewrite software - takes time & I spend most of my > : time doing processing & some hardware, ie card-reader, etc I don't have > : with suitable interfaces for pc's, etc etc 6. emulation on pc-- drivers for > : older Fuji eagles on pc not avail > : > 4800 bps might be slow, but if you start the transfer now while you're looking > into the other options, it might be finished before you come to any other > conclusions. Kermit software is available for both ends of the transfer: > > http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ > > Except I'm not sure if Kermit-11 for RSTS will run on V6. > > - Frank > > According to K11USR.DOC, Kermit-11 will only run on V7.2 or later, and can only be built on V8.0 or later, due to the use of RMS11 V2.0 and new assembler directives. I only ever tried to build KRT (the new version of Kermit-11, based on Billy Yodleman's many improvements) on RSTS/E V10.1, which is all I had access to. I think it should work on any V9.0 or later, and maybe even as far back as V7.2, but I have no way to try it. V6C must be over twenty years old now! I suppose upgrading is impossible... (Though if you did, you would need at least V9.3 to support Ethernet, IIRC. This still wouldn't let you talk to the PC unless you installed a DECnet package on the PC, or wrote a raw ethernet application. No version of RSTS, as far as I know, supports TCP/IP.) BTW, you should be able to run at 9600 baud, if you have a DH11 or maybe even with a DZ11. What kind of terminal interface are you using? DL11's and DJ11's probably won't work at that speed for file transfers due to lack of buffering, but both DZ's and DH's have an input silo. John Santos 11-Aug-98 15:13:10-GMT,1897;000000000015 Return-Path: Received: (from fdc@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA20554 for fdc; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 11:13:10 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 11:13:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Frank da Cruz Message-Id: <199808111513.LAA20554@watsun.cc.columbia.edu> To: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Newsgroups: vmsnet.pdp-11,alt.sys.pdp11,comp.os.rsts,comp.sys.dec Subject: Ersatz-11 demo machine Organization: D Bit, Troy, NY From: wilson@dbit.com (John Wilson) NNTP-Posting-Host: dbit.dbit.com Message-ID: <35cf7e6e.0@news.wizvax.net> Date: 10 Aug 1998 19:12:46 -0500 X-Trace: 10 Aug 1998 19:12:46 -0500, dbit.dbit.com Lines: 20 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsfeed.wizvax.net!news.wizvax.net!dbit.com!wilson Xref: news.columbia.edu vmsnet.pdp-11:9775 alt.sys.pdp11:4059 comp.os.rsts:1142 comp.sys.dec:66258 D Bit has installed a telnettable demo machine running RSX-11M-PLUS V4.5 under the "full" version of Ersatz-11, which anyone is free to use. The intent is to allow users to evaluate E11's speed/compatibility on their own code if it won't fit into the freeware evaluation/hobby version (which has significant limitations), but anyone who just needs or wants access to an RSX machine is also welcome to use it. Just please keep in mind that there's currently only one telnet port (actually a serial connection through another machine), so please don't hog it. Create as many files as you want (the machine has Kermit so you can get your files in), but please clean up when you're done. telnet://demo.dbit.com (log in as USER/USER) Configuration: Pentium II @ 400 MHz, 32 MB SDRAM, Asus P2B motherboard Diamond Fireport 40, 2.2 GB Quantum Atlas II UW SCSI disk DR-DOS V7.02, RSX-11M-PLUS V4.5, Ersatz-11 V2.0L John Wilson D Bit www.dbit.com 11-Aug-98 15:38:08-GMT,1561;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: (from fdc@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA29001; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 11:37:58 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 98 11:37:57 EDT From: Frank da Cruz To: wilson@dbit.com (John Wilson) Subject: Re: Ersatz-11 demo machine In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 11 Aug 1998 11:13:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: > D Bit has installed a telnettable demo machine running RSX-11M-PLUS V4.5 > under the "full" version of Ersatz-11, which anyone is free to use. The > intent is to allow users to evaluate E11's speed/compatibility on their own > code if it won't fit into the freeware evaluation/hobby version (which has > significant limitations), but anyone who just needs or wants access to an > RSX machine is also welcome to use it. Just please keep in mind that > there's currently only one telnet port (actually a serial connection through > another machine), so please don't hog it. Create as many files as you want > (the machine has Kermit so you can get your files in)... > I noticed you have K11 3.60 for RSX there -- I wonder if you have any interest into bringing the RSX version current with the RT and/or RSTS versions, which are way ahead of it in terms of bug fixes (and to some extent) features. If so, let me know and I'll put you in touch with the RT Kermit guy (Billy Youdelman) and the RSTS Kermit guy (John Santos), in case you don't already know them. Thanks! - Frank P.S. Good to see RSX again -- it's been a while... 11-Aug-98 17:03:36-GMT,2927;000000000015 Return-Path: Received: from dbit.dbit.com (dbit.dbit.com [199.181.141.53]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA24840 for ; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 13:03:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from wilson@localhost) by dbit.dbit.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) id NAA01725 for fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 13:03:58 -0400 Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 13:03:58 -0400 From: John Wilson Message-Id: <199808111703.NAA01725@dbit.dbit.com> To: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Subject: Re: Ersatz-11 demo machine >I noticed you have K11 3.60 for RSX there -- That was the newest I could find... >I wonder if you have any interest >into bringing the RSX version current with the RT and/or RSTS versions, which >are way ahead of it in terms of bug fixes (and to some extent) features. Interest sure, but probably not the resources; I'm totally swamped with work on Ersatz-11 (which has been a commercial product for almost a year now so I've got a bunch of actual customers leaning on me for bug fixes and upgrades, not just hobby users), and I've haven't done much programming on RSX, I'm much more comfortable with RT and RSTS. So I'm probably not the best guy for the job. But it would suit my purposes to have more Kermits around that can transfer entire raw disks as a single giant file, since that's what my emulator needs to emulate the disks, so I periodically throw some time on my own PDP-11 Kermit project(s) (which I've bored you about before), next time I get into that mode (much needed for my customers since there's still no stand-alone Kermit for the 11, which would be handy for people running MUMPS or weird home-grown OSes for which no Kermit exists) it might be a relatively short jump to understand enough about RSX terminal I/O to do some work on K11 too. I assume all of the current Columbia PDP-11 Kermits were originally intended to come from the same source code base with conditionals and add-on files to handle differences between OSes right? I guess it would be hard to push it back in that direction since Billy and John are presumably attached to their divergent versions, it wouldn't be a good thing to step on their toes, but if they haven't gone too far it might not be too hard to incorporate their fixes. Eventually I plan to make my RT-11 KSERVE.SAV program (which is a lot more bare-bones than K11 but does have sliding windows) a bit more portable (so it will run under RSX, and stand-alone too) but I should probably not cloud things by contributing that, especially because I don't want it to be subject to Columbia's distribution rules (I *wish* more of my stuff would turn up on CD-ROM collections!). >P.S. Good to see RSX again -- it's been a while... Hopefully I'll get enough cash together to get machines/licenses for RSTS and RT (or TSX) too, one of these days. The more demos the better! John Wilson D Bit 11-Aug-98 22:23:53-GMT,4339;000000000011 Return-Path: Received: from dbit.dbit.com (dbit.dbit.com [199.181.141.53]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA29054 for ; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 18:23:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from wilson@localhost) by dbit.dbit.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) id SAA02141 for fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 18:24:29 -0400 Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 18:24:29 -0400 From: John Wilson Message-Id: <199808112224.SAA02141@dbit.dbit.com> To: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Subject: Re: Ersatz-11 demo machine >Actually, there is a Kermit for MUMPS, and it's in our archive. But I never >had any evidence that anybody except the person who wrote it actually used it, >or that the form that it's stored in on the archive is usable / decodable by >anybody. Wow, I wish I'd noticed that. I've only talked to a couple of MUMPS users, I was interested in adding a MUMPS mode to a file insert/extract utility I wrote but I was told that MUMPS didn't really even have the concept of "files" which makes file transfer a bit difficult. Well they've got to have *something* (big strings or something) to hold their code in... >As I understand it, most of the work is at a higher level -- integrating >some Kermit protocol bug fixes from the RT and RSTS versions is the main order >of business (K-11 negotiates Attribute packets, but then implements them >incorrectly, so all transfers between K-11 3.60 and earlier fail unless the >user tells it to "set attributes off"). Yeah attributes packets are tricky, the state handling gets confusing if sliding windows are in use too. But if the tranmission/reception part is OK, actually generating and interpreting the packet contents shouldn't be a big problem. I gather Billy's totally on top of the nasty raw directory hacking code needed to set file dates etc. under RT, that's the only hard part I can think of. >Other stuff like sliding windows >would be nice to add, but nobody is screaming for it since 11s tend to have >other bottlenecks (the DH-11 comes to mind). Yeah I wasn't able to crank things up too high in my Kermit server, especially since I did most of the debugging on RT-11 V4.0 which only has a 120-byte input buffer for the console terminal, so you can't get even one packet ahead in that direction. >Billy & John both would like to see the sources re-integrated, but neither >have had time to do it. There's no rivalry at all. There's also a guy in >Sweden, Johnny Billquist -- you probably know him -- who might be able to >pitch in with some RSX expertise. Actually, I'm sure you must know all these >guys better than I do. John Santos dropped out when machines died (leaving >the new RSTS version in permanent Beta test), but he'd like to get back into >it, time permitting. Billy tends to be pretty eager too, but his version is >pretty much up to date in terms of bug fixes, Y2K, etc. Of course I can't >speak for them. Hmm supporting RSTS Kermit sounds like it might be worth me donating a copy of Ersatz-11 to John Santos -- assuming he has a spare 80x86 PC to run it, and the RSTS license paperwork and dist kit is still around from his dead machine(s). Johnny Billquist is great, it seems like he gets into everything sooner or later. >We don't get anything out of the PDP-11 version -- you can put any copyright >notice and conditions you want on your version. We already signed a contract >with Mentec to let them distribute K-11 -- no money involved. Cool! I was wondering how they swung that, or whether they just assumed you wouldn't mind. Glad to hear they did it right. >I have a >nostalgic affection for PDP-11s (and -8s, and -10s, and 12s, and even -7s) -- >they were among the first machines I worked on. Yeah it's really nice after all those years of watching my 11s deteriorate (either that or they'd rack up huge power bills when they *did* work well), it's pretty cool being able to pop up a nice fast 11 any time I want to play with it. I'd love to get back into 10s, I've got a garage full of them (finally found some collectors who want to give my KL-2065 a good home but I do plan to run at least one KS myself). A while ago I tried to get Columbia's MM-20 clone to compile on Linux but failed bigtime, gotta spend some time on that some day. John Wilson D Bit 12-Aug-98 1:01:20-GMT,1178;000000000005 Return-Path: Received: from dbit.dbit.com (dbit.dbit.com [199.181.141.53]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA21575 for ; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 21:01:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from wilson@localhost) by dbit.dbit.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) id VAA02293 for fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 21:02:02 -0400 Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 21:02:02 -0400 From: John Wilson Message-Id: <199808120102.VAA02293@dbit.dbit.com> To: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Subject: Re: Ersatz-11 demo machine >I'm sure he'd be thrilled to hear from you: john@egh.com. Thanks for the address, I just sent him a message there. >You know about the new KLs, right? At TOAD.COM? Yeah I visited them in person back before the machines were completed, it was like a religious experience! I just wish I'd thought to bring along a camera to take a picture of their real KL's DC wiring harness, since whoever reattaches the three bays together on my KL will need to know which color wire goes on which unmarked PSU terminal. >I'll get back to you about mm as soon as I hear back about it. Thanks! John Wilson D Bit 12-Aug-98 14:03:08-GMT,2625;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: (from fdc@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA19258; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 10:03:00 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 98 10:02:59 EDT From: Frank da Cruz To: John Wilson Subject: Re: Ersatz-11 demo machine In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 11 Aug 1998 18:24:29 -0400 Message-ID: > >Actually, there is a Kermit for MUMPS, and it's in our archive. But I > >never had any evidence that anybody except the person who wrote it actually > >used it, or that the form that it's stored in on the archive is usable / > >decodable by anybody. > > Wow, I wish I'd noticed that. I've only talked to a couple of MUMPS users, > I was interested in adding a MUMPS mode to a file insert/extract utility I > wrote but I was told that MUMPS didn't really even have the concept of > "files" which makes file transfer a bit difficult. Well they've got to > have *something* (big strings or something) to hold their code in... > Well, if you want to take a look at what we have here, the MUMPS files are in ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/b/mp*.*. I used MUMPS for a short while a long time ago, back in the heyday of the 11/45. Each PDP-11 OS had a distinctive pattern to display in the panel lights when it was idle -- left-to-right, right-to-left, etc. MUMPS had a center-outward pattern that looked like, well, a case of mumps... > >As I understand it, most of the work is at a higher level -- integrating > >some Kermit protocol bug fixes from the RT and RSTS versions is the main > >order of business (K-11 negotiates Attribute packets, but then implements > >them incorrectly, so all transfers between K-11 3.60 and earlier fail > >unless the user tells it to "set attributes off"). > > Yeah attributes packets are tricky... > K11 was the first to implement this feature, so there was nothing to test it against. By the time we had attribute packets going in the other Kermit programs and discovered the mistake in K11, Brian Nelson was out of the PDP-11 business, and nobody has touched the RSX version since. About MM -- I guess we don't have an out-of-the can Linux version after all, which surprises me. Our sole surviving MM author says: > >Somebody mentioned to me that they tried to build mm on Linux but failed > >(no details). I assume people have done this, right? > > We don't have any "official" linux support, though the Solaris port was > mostly posix stuff that probably is similar for linux. They may want to > grab the solaris snapshot (same place). - Frank 28-Sep-98 17:19:58-GMT,3755;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu (mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.35.143]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA03231 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 13:19:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Viola.Opus1.COM (Viola.Opus1.COM [192.245.12.8]) by mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA14318 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 13:19:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Opus1.COM by Opus1.COM (PMDF V5.2-27 #9830) id <01J2C38EX7K09EG2WU@Opus1.COM> for kermit-support@columbia.edu; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 10:19:42 MST Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 09:55:41 -0700 (MST) From: billy@MIX.COM Subject: Re: Problems In-reply-to: "Your message dated Mon, 28 Sep 1998 12:45:57 -0400 (EDT)" Sender: Billy@MIX.COM To: David Kerscher Cc: Kermit Software Support , Billy Youdelman Message-id: <01J2C4HI1PCS9EG2WU@Opus1.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Hi - > > II. I have set the carrier-watch off. One thing he did suggest was to > > make sure the speed, flow control and parity were the same. The RT-11 > > port is set as a console (set line tt:). My understanding is that the > > speed cannot be set on that port - so what should I set the Kermit 95 > > setting at? > > > The same speed that you used on MS-DOS Kermit when it worked for you on this > same connection. Or just try different speeds until you get one that works. > Probably 9600 would be a good first guess. Speed is usually set by wire wrapping on the appropriate terminals of the serial line interface board in the PDP-11. 9600 is the most likely speed, then 19,200 or perhaps 1200 or 2400 if it's a really old machine. > > The flow control on the RT-11 is (set RT-11 flow) what would > > the equilvalent be for Kermit 95? > > > Probably "set flow xon/xoff". If that doesn't work, try "set flow none". RT-11 uses XON/XOFF - the only alternative is to use the KM communications handler I supply with the KRT Kermit which also does hardware flow control but that is not likely necessary here. KM's main use is with modems that have trouble with XOFF flow control. > > The parity has been set at none on both machines. > > > That should be OK. Actually RT-11 as distributed is a seven-bit system (KM also supports eight-bit data transfers) so space parity is forced on in Kermit there. This is to support transfer of binary (eight-bit) data - when Kermit sees the parity bit in use it enables sending eight-bit characters by quoting them such that they'll survive a seven-bit path. Parity can be set to none after Kermit is started on the RT-11 host if need be but setting parity to space as well on the other Kermit is probably what's needed here and will be necessary to transfer any eight-bit data. > > The RT-11 also has the long_packets off - is there anything that > > needs to be done in Kermit 95 concerning that command? > > > No. Kermit 95 is perfectly capable of receiving long packets. RT-11 can send long packets without any problems but when receiving files via the RT-11 console terminal port small packets will have to be used, probably around 56 bytes. This is because RT-11 isn't expecting anything faster than input by a user from a keyboard and here when the input buffer overflows it only rings the terminal bell - flow control is never actually asserted - thus data must be sent slowly to avoid any overrun. If you need any additional help with the PDP-11 end of this please feel free to contact me directly. Regards, Billy Youdelman billy@MIX.COM Maintainer of the RT-11 Kermit 1-Oct-98 17:01:26-GMT,7635;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: (from fdc@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA15722 for fdc; Thu, 1 Oct 1998 13:01:26 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 13:01:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Frank da Cruz Message-Id: <199810011701.NAA15722@watsun.cc.columbia.edu> To: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Message-ID: <3613A881.ED0E72FC@idirect.com> Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 12:06:25 -0400 From: Jerome Fine X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11,vmsnet.pdp-11,comp.sys.dec,comp.sys.dec.micro Subject: RT-11/TSX-PLUS Year 2000 Compliant Application Programs Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: ts6-8tn-4.idirect.com X-Trace: 1 Oct 1998 16:07:34 GMT, ts6-8tn-4.idirect.com Organization: "Internet Direct Usenet User" Lines: 148 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!howland.erols.net!newshub.northeast.verio.net!cyclone.news.idirect.com!island.idirect.com!relay.news.idirect.com!nemo.idirect.com!ts6-8tn-4.idirect.com Xref: news.columbia.edu alt.sys.pdp11:4218 vmsnet.pdp-11:9945 comp.sys.dec:68297 comp.sys.dec.micro:8668 TO: All Current Users of RT-11 Application Programs I have been approached by a number of companies to fix the bugs in their RT-11/TSX-PLUS application programs, in particular with regard to Year 2000 Bugs, but all bugs in general, as well as making some enhancements where deemed appropriate. In some cases, the number of changes to be made was trivial. In some cases, they had not retained or did not have access to their sources, and the number of changes was too large to figure out from just the SAV files. In other cases, it was possible to figure out how to do a very few patches based on what the program was doing. If anyone is really interested, I can provide a few examples. The applications which are the easiest to solve are those written in FORTRAN or MACRO assembler or some combination. "C" is only a little more difficult. I have not used Dibol or Cobol for so long that I am rusty on these last two. If you (at this very late date) still would like to keep the old programs that execute under RT-11/TSX-PLUS (note that I specified only the software - the hardware is another matter which does have a number of possible solutions depending on the application), please contact me at the above e-mail address. Note that Sources are almost always required to do the work in an inexpensive manner. However, if the investment in software was very large and there are only a few aspects which are Y2K dependent, it may even be possible to patch the executable files. It would all depend on just how much documentation is available and how complex is the overall application. One key aspect is that the old PDP-11 hardware need not always be the sole means by which the applications must still be run. In simple situations, it is possible to substitute a PC without changing any of the programs, including the operating system. I have seen all manner of PDP-11 OSs running under and emulator which runs under W95 (or MS-DOS). In particular, a Pentium 233 MMX runs at many times the speed of a PDP-11/93. In sample benchmarks for RT-11 under W95 using the E11 emulator written by John Wilson, approximately 3 * 11/93 speeds were achieved. Absolutely no code was changed from the real PDP-11 to be run under E11 on the PC under W95. Note that I am not offering a single one price simple solution for all computer sites. In fact, I am not offering any solutions whatsoever. What I am saying is that each computer system would have to be evaluated individually - and that could be the real problem. If you are too far away - I am in Toronto - and the initial evaluation can't be done over the phone or by e-mail, the cost can quickly get out of hand. What I am offering is an initial evaluation of whether or not there is any prospect that a solution can even be found which is worth while. But, on the other hand, I do know of a number of sites who are using the Y2K problems to justify a switch to a PC at 10 times the cost due to a complete re-write. This solution re-writes the application completely and does not use an emulator of any kind. Even if the sources are unavailable, then some systems can be speeded up very dramatically without changing any code at all and for far less than the $ US 25,000 that was mentioned a short time ago by "Ron". For TSX-PLUS, there is already a Y2K compliant version of the operating system for the part that replaces the RMON and the KMON. For RT-11, Mentec announced V5.7 to initially be released in about June or July of 1997. The release date has been moved up at least 3 times and is currently in field test. For those sites who do not use the date at all, but no longer want to depend on the PDP-11 hardware or "could use" a dramatic speed improvement, there are a number of possibilities depending on the current hardware being used. If only a maximum of three serial lines are in use for terminals along with only a small amount of disk storage (up to 2 GBytes), there are simple replacement solutions based on a standard PC running W95 and using the E11 emulator mentioned above. Of course, this solution is not limited to only those sites that don't use the date at all. One other solution to the Y2K problem is to subtract 28 from the year (I believe it is the Rule of 28 - if not 28 some value in the 20s). This results in a year in which all the days of the month fall on that same day of the week. The problem in RT-11 is that some of the system utilities regard a year portion of zero (RT-11 uses base = 1972) as being an illegal or bad date even though it produces a well defined date of 1972 (DIR is quite happy with 1972). Of course, in RT-11, the date does not really break (for the currently released V5.6 and prior versions) until 01-Jan-2004. So, if you stop using your system for a year until 2001, you can set the date back to 1973 and all the days of the week will match. (I am trying to inject a bit of humour into a very serious situation. If you did not understand that the last sentence was said tongue in cheek, that is how it was meant!) If there is any interest, please e-mail me directly or start the initial discussion within the news group where more suggestions will be available than I may be able to recommend or be aware of. Note that I don't bother with a web page since I am only interested in RT-11/TSX-PLUS software. I find just using a PC to be enough of a bother. But, via e-mail, most communication can be carried on. If your system is running RSX or RSTS/E, I can help a bit with the hardware aspect, but I suggest you go elsewhere for software solutions as my primary focus from a software point of view is an RT-11 based system. Comments on this post are always invited (including flames if that is how you prefer to answer a serious problem - in general, I prefer to work with others in co-operation rather than as an adversary). There may be few if any responses either because all the Y2K work has been done or because most sites are switching from RT-11/TSX-PLUS to a PC based solution. This post does not address the needs of hobby users at this time since they are expected to maintain their own application programs and are assumed to be unable to pay for such maintenance - which is the definition of a hobby user. In the future, I will also address the needs of the hobby user. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine RT-11/TSX-PLUS User/Addict Year 2000 Solutions for RT-11 Legacy Applications (Sources not always required) 10-Dec-98 17:43:14-GMT,3054;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu (mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.35.143]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA20891 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 12:43:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from cello.Opus1.COM (Cello.Opus1.COM [192.245.12.7]) by mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA03616 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 12:42:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from Opus1.COM by Opus1.COM (PMDF V5.2-29 #9830) id <01J563OGLB34A9PK1L@Opus1.COM> for kermit-support@columbia.edu; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 10:42:46 MST Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 10:28:18 -0700 (MST) From: billy@MIX.COM Subject: ?MON-F-Trap to 10 032564 from KRT.SAV In-reply-to: "Your message dated Thu, 10 Dec 1998 09:23:30 -0500 (EST)" Sender: Billy@MIX.COM To: asif Cc: kermit-support@columbia.edu, Billy Youdelman Message-id: <01J564KB4XMEA9PK1L@Opus1.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Hi - The hex decoder program uses a simple checksum at the end of each line of hex text to test for errors but it could be something has gotten past this check, particularly if there was a problem which truncated the file transfer at the end of a line. The copy should be made at a slow speed (9600 or less) and may need to be slowed further by having the sending end pace the transmission using delays between lines, or characters, or both. Also, what version of RT-11 are you running, and which monitor(s)? There is some small chance you may need a different version of KRT. If you only need transfers via the PDP-11 console terminal port there is a special version of KRT named krtmin.hex, available at the same place you got krt.hex, which will work with RT-11 back through V3B. If you have RT-11 V4 only the RT-11FB monitor is supported by the full KRT Kermit - this is due to too many missing features in earlier versions of RT - I wrote krtmin to make up for as much of this as possible. And if there's anything further I can do to help please feel free to contact me directly. Regards, Billy Youdelman billy@MIX.COM Maintainer of the KRT Kermit > > Thank you very much for your guidance. You had told us the file "krt.hex" > > for our solution and a program for unhexifying. I have transferred the file > > to my PDP-11/40 system and have unhexified it by you supplied program > > "krthex.mac". Now the problem is when I execute "krt.sav" program seems to > > be run but after writing an introductory line, it aborts and does not give > > kermit prompt. The message is "?MON-F-Trap to 10 032564" Please help me in > > this regard. Asif > > > Since the method you used for getting krt.hex onto your system is not > error-checked, it might require several tries to get there intact. > The other possibility might be some kind of version mismatch, but I assume > you read the material at: > http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/pdp11.html > - Frank 30-Dec-98 19:43:57-GMT,765;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: (from fdc@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA28426; Wed, 30 Dec 1998 14:43:52 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 98 14:43:52 EST From: Frank da Cruz To: "Steven M. Schultz" Subject: Re: C-Kermit 7.0 Beta In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 28 Dec 1998 22:02:32 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: > I've placed a BSDI 4.0 version into the incoming/ directory as > > cku195.bsdi4-4.0 > Got it (+ the changes), thanks! - Frank P.S. I haven't had the guts to go near the PDP-11, but I don't think there's a prayer of getting C-K 7.0 to build on it. In 6.0, there was not even a byte to spare and 7.0 is definitely no smaller. 9-Mar-99 17:06:36-GMT,2549;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu (mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.35.143]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA20475 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 12:06:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from Viola.Opus1.COM (Viola.Opus1.COM [192.245.12.8]) by mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA26450 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 12:06:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from Opus1.COM by Opus1.COM (PMDF V5.2-31 #9830) id <01J8MEOBQ95C8Y5OOI@Opus1.COM> for kermit-support@columbia.edu; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 10:06:18 MST Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 09:51:01 -0700 (MST) From: billy@MIX.COM Subject: Re: Kermit for DEC RT-11 V4.00 In-reply-to: "Your message dated Tue, 09 Mar 1999 11:49:58 -0500 (EST)" Sender: Billy@MIX.COM To: John Drum Cc: Kermit Software Support , Billy Youdelman Message-id: <01J8MF7UJP448Y5OOI@Opus1.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Hi - > > I have an old PDP11/23-BC running RT11SJ V4.00H that I need to download > > files from to a 386 PC running MSDOS 5. The PDP11 has a DSD hard > > drive/floppy that takes the big 7 inch floppies. Is there any way to get a > > version of Kermit for this system on a big floppy? > > > You mean 8 inch? Anyway, not that I know of. You'll need to "bootstrap" > Kermit into your PDP-11 by following the Installation instructions link at: > http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/pdp11.html My 8" floppy controller is out for repairs but getting Kermit on the PDP-11 is quite simple. Get these files using anonymous ftp from watsun.cc.columbia.edu in their kermit/b directory (they are all text files and should be transfered using that mode) - krtmin.abs - A short abstract describing KRTMIN krtmin.doc - Documentation (krt.doc is the complete version if need be) krtmin.hex - A HEX encoded copy of the Kermit executable image krtmin.hlp - The HELP command text file krtmin.ini - A sample init file krthex.mac - The HEX to executable image conversion program Detailed instructions are at the top of krthex.mac. Or, if you prefer a floppy disk one person I know that can do it now is Tim Shoppa . Copying the above files to the pc first then over to the PDP-11 should take less than an hour though. Regards, Billy Youdelman billy@MIX.COM Maintainer of the RT-11 Kermit 2-Apr-99 15:36:08-GMT,2893;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: (from fdc@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA08578 for fdc; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 10:36:08 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 10:36:08 -0500 (EST) From: Frank da Cruz Message-Id: <199904021536.KAA08578@watsun.cc.columbia.edu> To: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Newsgroups: vmsnet.pdp-11,alt.sys.pdp11,comp.os.rsts,comp.sys.dec,comp.sys.dec.micro Subject: Ersatz-11 V2.1 Organization: D Bit, Troy, NY From: wilson@dbit.com (John Wilson) NNTP-Posting-Host: dbit.dbit.com Message-ID: <370450b2.0@news.wizvax.net> Date: 2 Apr 1999 00:08:02 -0500 X-Trace: 2 Apr 1999 00:08:02 -0500, dbit.dbit.com Lines: 50 Path: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu!panix!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!ulowell.uml.edu!newsfeed.wizvax.net!news.wizvax.net!dbit.com!wilson Xref: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu vmsnet.pdp-11:11214 alt.sys.pdp11:5141 comp.os.rsts:1233 comp.sys.dec:73419 comp.sys.dec.micro:9446 Ersatz-11 V2.1 Demo is now available for download from: http://www.dbit.com/pub/e11/install.exe (this file is a self-installing archive.) Ersatz-11 is a PDP-11 emulator which runs on Intel PCs under DOS (or in a DOS box under OS/2, Linux, or Windows). It's approximately five times the speed of a PDP-11/93 when running on a high-end P2 or P3, the exact multiple depends on the application, and even on an older 486 or P5 system it compares well to real PDP-11 hardware. This is the Demo version of Ersatz-11, it may be used for unlimited personal or hobby use but commercial use is limited to a 30-day evaluation period. It has a subset of the features of the full and "Lite" versions of Ersatz-11, which are commercial products described on www.dbit.com. The main additions since Ersatz-11 V2.0 Demo are: * MSCP disks, TMSCP tapes (so you can boot and install from an RX50 OS distribution kit just like on a real PDP-11) * TS11 tapes * additional older disk support: RC11, RF11, RP11 * Q-bus CPU emulation added * auto-configuration features: DL:, DU:, MS:, MU: controller types have appropriate defaults depending on Q- vs. Unibus CPU emulation. "Floating" CSR/vector values are auto-computed any time a device is added or deleted. * driver for SB16 MIDI port * built-in NE2000 Ethernet driver (in addition to packet driver support) * supports long filenames on systems that have them * bug fixes as usual V2.1 of the full and "Lite" versions of Ersatz-11 are also being released today, their new features are listed in the cover letters for the updates mailed to existing customers. The manuals for these versions are available online on www.dbit.com in the "Links" page, along with the manual for the Demo version (which is also included in the self-installing archive whose URL is given above). John Wilson D Bit www.dbit.com 30-Jun-99 17:35:48-GMT,2857;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu (mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.35.143]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA12033 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 13:35:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Viola.Opus1.COM (Viola.Opus1.COM [192.245.12.8]) by mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA24234 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 13:35:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Opus1.COM by Opus1.COM (PMDF V5.2-31 #9830) id <01JD099XTBPC9S4UAU@Opus1.COM> for kermit-support@columbia.edu; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 10:35:39 MST Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 09:48:58 -0700 (MST) From: billy@MIX.COM Subject: Re: Hang on. Kermit for a dinosaur? In-reply-to: "Your message dated Wed, 30 Jun 1999 10:03:26 -0400 (EDT)" Sender: Billy@MIX.COM To: Michael Babcock Cc: Kermit Software Support , billy@MIX.COM Message-id: <01JD0B6967QS9S4UAU@Opus1.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Hi - > > A file called Kermit.sav exists on the PDP, but I receive an > > "?KMON-F-Invalid start address for program" message when I try to "RUN > > DU0:KERMIT.SAV" on the DEC. > > > My guess would be that it's an inappropriate PDP-11 Kermit binary, probably > for a different operating system. I'm not sure why this occuring but it's quite easy to load a newer version of Kermit on the PDP-11. > http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/pdp11.html In the Bootstrapping section of this page (about half way down) you'll see a list of files necessary for an RT-11/TSX+ Kermit named KRTMIN - this is a special version that is much smaller than the full Kermit but it does contain everything you'll need to transfer your files. Under RT-11 it can only use the console terminal port but with TSX it will work with any serial port on which TSX can run an interactive session (including the console terminal). It's smaller because it is primarily just a sever - there is no telephone dialer, modem control and so forth in it. The file krtmin.hex is a HEX encoded (ASCII text) copy of the executable image and krthex.mac is the source code for small decoding (back to the executable) the HEX file. Transfer instructions are at the top of krthex. First get these files on to your Unix host and use any text editor or file viewer to read krthex.mac. Then connect a serial port on the Unix machine to a serial port supported by TSX on the PDP-11, login and copy the files across. After decoding the HEX file you can use the same connection to transfer files - just run krtmin, give it the server command and you're ready to begin. And, if there's anything else I can do to help please feel free to ask. Regards, Billy Youdelman Maintainer of the RT-11/TSX+ Kermit 9-Jul-99 20:08:58-GMT,2519;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu (mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.35.143]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA20560 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 16:08:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Viola.Opus1.COM (Viola.Opus1.COM [192.245.12.8]) by mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA24607 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 16:08:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Opus1.COM by Opus1.COM (PMDF V5.2-31 #9830) id <01JDD0B4QESG9S83B1@Opus1.COM> for kermit-support@columbia.edu; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 13:08:51 MST Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 12:45:17 -0700 (MST) From: billy@MIX.COM Subject: Re: Kermit Software for the PDP-11 In-reply-to: "Your message dated Fri, 09 Jul 1999 15:44:05 -0400 (EDT)" Sender: Billy@MIX.COM To: Paul.Ritzmann.B@bayer.com Cc: kermit-support@columbia.edu, shoppa@trailing-edge.com, billy@MIX.COM Message-id: <01JDD15AWP3O9S83B1@Opus1.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Hi - > We don't have actual PDP-11s here any more -- in fact, it's been nearly > 20 years... Nor do we have any 8-inch floppy drives at all, on any platform. > We can make a TK-50, but only in VMS BACKUP format. I don't know if RSX can > read this. One person that can make copies to 8" RSX floppies is Tim Shoppa . This may be the easiest way to go... > If you look at the PDP-11 Kermit web page: > http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/pdp11.html > and go down a bit past the middle, you'll find a section called > "bootstrapping", that suggests ways of loading the binary onto your PDP-11 > through the serial port. However, all of our information about this is > rather RT11-centric. True but but there other PDP-11 HEX conversion programs available in the kermit/b directory at Columbia - k11hex.b2s - DEC's BASIC PLUS TWO k11hex.bas - RSTS style BASIC k11hex.ftn - FORTRAN Thus if the target machine has either FORTRAN or BASIC on it this method can be used. You'll also need k11rsx.hex and k11ins.doc (install details) which are in the same dir - all of these file are available by anonymous ftp from . I'd also suggest reading the top of krthex.mac - it's an RT-11 program but may be helpful regarding the mechanics of connecting the PDP-11 to another system via a serial port to transfer the files. Regards, Billy Youdelman Maintainer of the RT-11 Kermit 9-Jul-99 20:08:58-GMT,2519;000000000005 Return-Path: Received: from mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu (mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.35.143]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA20560 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 16:08:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Viola.Opus1.COM (Viola.Opus1.COM [192.245.12.8]) by mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA24607 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 16:08:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Opus1.COM by Opus1.COM (PMDF V5.2-31 #9830) id <01JDD0B4QESG9S83B1@Opus1.COM> for kermit-support@columbia.edu; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 13:08:51 MST Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 12:45:17 -0700 (MST) From: billy@MIX.COM Subject: Re: Kermit Software for the PDP-11 In-reply-to: "Your message dated Fri, 09 Jul 1999 15:44:05 -0400 (EDT)" Sender: Billy@MIX.COM To: Paul.Ritzmann.B@bayer.com Cc: kermit-support@columbia.edu, shoppa@trailing-edge.com, billy@MIX.COM Message-id: <01JDD15AWP3O9S83B1@Opus1.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Hi - > We don't have actual PDP-11s here any more -- in fact, it's been nearly > 20 years... Nor do we have any 8-inch floppy drives at all, on any platform. > We can make a TK-50, but only in VMS BACKUP format. I don't know if RSX can > read this. One person that can make copies to 8" RSX floppies is Tim Shoppa . This may be the easiest way to go... > If you look at the PDP-11 Kermit web page: > http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/pdp11.html > and go down a bit past the middle, you'll find a section called > "bootstrapping", that suggests ways of loading the binary onto your PDP-11 > through the serial port. However, all of our information about this is > rather RT11-centric. True but but there other PDP-11 HEX conversion programs available in the kermit/b directory at Columbia - k11hex.b2s - DEC's BASIC PLUS TWO k11hex.bas - RSTS style BASIC k11hex.ftn - FORTRAN Thus if the target machine has either FORTRAN or BASIC on it this method can be used. You'll also need k11rsx.hex and k11ins.doc (install details) which are in the same dir - all of these file are available by anonymous ftp from . I'd also suggest reading the top of krthex.mac - it's an RT-11 program but may be helpful regarding the mechanics of connecting the PDP-11 to another system via a serial port to transfer the files. Regards, Billy Youdelman Maintainer of the RT-11 Kermit 5-Oct-99 21:27:01-GMT,2972;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu (mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.35.143]) by maillist1.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA29372 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 17:26:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Viola.Opus1.COM (Viola.Opus1.COM [192.245.12.8]) by mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA17726 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 17:26:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Opus1.COM by Opus1.COM (PMDF V5.2-31 #9830) id <01JGS0ICQ4349T6LAP@Opus1.COM> for kermit-support@columbia.edu; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:26:50 MST Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 14:06:13 -0700 (MST) From: billy@MIX.COM Subject: RE: Bug with older PDP 11 kermit In-reply-to: "Your message dated Tue, 05 Oct 1999 16:57:16 -0400 (EDT)" Sender: Billy@MIX.COM To: Bernard Littman Cc: kermit-support@columbia.edu, billy@MIX.COM Message-id: <01JGS1IDZAL09T6LAP@Opus1.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Hi - > > Thanks but I tried that and it did not handle. The packets are sent but > > they are treated as erronious until the kermit on the alpha exhausts > > retries. This is most likely a 7-bit path problem. RT-11 as distributed is 7-bits only on the console port as well as in its serial line device handler. > Tell C-Kermit to: > set attributes off ; Avoids bug in Kermit-11 This is sometimes necessary as older versions of the PDP-11 Kermit did not correctly report the operating system type. > set parity space ; Don't assume 8-bit transparency Setting parity to space will deal with the path problem. You may have to give the same command to Kermit on the RT-11 host, although it should default to this. I'm not sure if the version you're currently using does though. > set control prefix all ; Don't assume control-char transparency > set flow xon/xoff ; Use Xon/Xoff flow control > set window 1 ; Don't use sliding windows > set receive packet-length 70 ; Use VERY short packets > set send packet-length 70 ; in case flow control doesn't work If you're sending to the console port on the PDP-11 you may need to set the packet-length as small as 56 bytes. If you are logging the file transfer transactions you'll see the PDP-11 returning a bell (control-G) for each character that overflows its input buffer - you can either reduce the link speed or the packet-length or both until the buffer is no longer being overrun. Going from the PDP-11 is not a problem here - normal size or long packets may be used in that direction with no problems. > If all else fails, maybe we can find somebody who can put an up-to-date > version of Kermit-11 on some media that you can read. If this becomes necessary just let me know.. Regards, Billy Youdelman billy@MIX.COM Maintainer of the RT-11 Kermit 19-Nov-99 18:46:57-GMT,3053;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from watsun.cc.columbia.edu (watsun.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.39.2]) by mailhub2.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA11657 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 1999 13:46:55 -0500 (EST) Received: (from fdc@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA21048 for fdc; Fri, 19 Nov 1999 13:46:54 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 13:46:54 -0500 (EST) From: Frank da Cruz Message-Id: <199911191846.NAA21048@watsun.cc.columbia.edu> To: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Path: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu!panix!newsfeed.mathworks.com!newsfeed.tli.de!do.de.uu.net!f.de.uu.net!news.uni-stuttgart.de!news.ruhr-uni-bochum.de!gmd.de!gmdtub!not-for-mail From: Hartmut Brandt Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11 Subject: Version 2.4 of the p11 PDP-11 emulator Date: 19 Nov 1999 15:04:33 GMT Organization: GMD-FIRST Lines: 49 Message-ID: <813ou1$lp7$1@freebsd.first.gmd.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: scotty.fokus.gmd.de User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-19990805 ("Preacher Man") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/4.0-CURRENT (i386)) Xref: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu alt.sys.pdp11:6012 Version 2.4 of p11 - the Begemot PDP-11 emulator - is available on ftp.fokus.gmd.de:/pub/cats/usr/harti/p11. This release supports the following platforms: FreeBSD 4.0 Sparc-Solaris 2.[5678] Redhat-Linux It will possibly work on FreeBSD [23].* and other Linux variants. To build it you need libbegemot (avalaible in the same location), gcc and gmake. Previous versions also built on BSD/OS and SunOS. A version of the emulator is run on one of our machines. Try one of the following (it may not always be available): telnet scotty.fokus.gmd.de 10000 telnet scotty.fokus.gmd.de 10001 telnet scotty.fokus.gmd.de 10002 telnet scotty.fokus.gmd.de 10003 to get connected to one of the four available terminals. If telnet connects, but this terminal is currently in use, you'll get a short message. You should then try connecting to another port. Once you are online, log into 2.11BSD with username and password guest/guest1. Don't forget to logout, before disconnecting with telnet. Note, that there is an IP connection to the host machine, but not to the outside world (this is due to IP routing restrictions in out network). The current implementation emulates a KDJ11A, one or more RLV12, RHV??, RK11 disk controllers, a boot ROM, one or more KL11A controllers, on FreeBSD and Linux a DEQNA ethernet adapter, a read-only TM11 tape and a standard line printer interface. A boot ROM (with source code) to boot from RL/RK and RP discs is included. On a 450MHz Pentium-III a full 'make world install' of 2.11BSD takes around 6 hours, which is several times faster than a real PDP. Floating point performance is even higher. The emulator hast tested with 2.11BSD, RSX and RSX-PLUS, RT V4, V[4567]-Unix and XXDP. Enjoy, Harti B. Brandt -- harti brandt, http://www.fokus.gmd.de/research/cc/cats/employees/hartmut.brandt/private brandt@fokus.gmd.de, harti@begemot.org 31-Mar-2000 22:47:33-GMT,3419;000000000015 Return-Path: Received: from watsun.cc.columbia.edu (watsun.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.39.2]) by fozimane.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA18856 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 17:47:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from dbit.dbit.com ([199.181.141.53]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA10695 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 17:47:32 -0500 (EST) Received: (from wilson@localhost) by dbit.dbit.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA01558 for fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 17:47:46 -0500 Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 17:47:46 -0500 From: John Wilson Message-Id: <200003312247.RAA01558@dbit.dbit.com> To: fdc@columbia.edu Subject: Re: pdp11 to PC [Re my KSERVE for RT-11] >Just send it in. We'll find a place to put it. You'd really be willing to accept yet another divergent PDP-11 Kermit? Well if so I'll glady ship it to you (it's an easy one, just one source file, so far anyway). Right now I'm swamped because I'm shipping a new rev of my company's main product tomorrow, and of course it's not quite finished, but next week I'll have some time to clean up KSERVE and make it presentable -- either find the bug or convince myself it was actually operator error and/or flakey hardware. I was doing the testing on an 11/34 and it turned into quite the recursive Kermit-fest because it was actually faster to build the binary on an emulator and download it into the 11/34 at 9600 baud, than to build it on the 11/34 itself. So I did have some confusion with using intermediate buggy versions to download the later versions... Now I've got matching SCSI drives on the PDP-11 and PC so I can slip code in w/o involving Kermit at all, so I won't have trouble with accidentally running the wrong version to do the download. >John Santos sent in a "test" version of Kermit-11 updated for RSTS/E about >three years ago, which at least fixes the well-known bugs in 3.60 or whatever >Brian Nelson's last consolidated release was. > >The one that has never been touched since 1989 or thereabouts, and therefore >still has the fatal attributes-packet bug is the RSX version. > >I suspect if someone simply diff'd the updated RSTS version with the >original one, and applied the system-independent parts of the diff to the >RSX version, that would do the trick. > >Better still would be to reconcile Billy Youdelman's KRT version with RSTS >and RSX. Obviously this kind of work can only be done by somebody who has >access to these platforms -- and preferably all of them. You dropped me a line about this back when I announced my demo.dbit.com RSX demo system, I'd *really* like to volunteer to merge all the K11 versions into one (and spruce it up some, too), my problem has been not having a big block of time to dedicate to it. I figure offering to help and then maybe dropping the ball is a lot worse than not helping at all. But if it's been 11 years since a real release, my short-term stop & go flakiness might be small potatoes in comparison! Anyway I would like to volunteer to do the work, if you don't mind a little scheduling uncertainty, and someone isn't already working on the merge. I thought I saw a note recently from John Santos saying he was losing access to his last RSTS system, so I hope that the 3-year-old stuff already includes whatever he's done? John Wilson D Bit 1-Apr-2000 19:33:20-GMT,2964;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from watsun.cc.columbia.edu (watsun.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.39.2]) by fozimane.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15166 for ; Sat, 1 Apr 2000 14:33:19 -0500 (EST) Received: (from fdc@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA24157; Sat, 1 Apr 2000 14:32:56 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 14:32:56 EST From: Frank da Cruz To: John Wilson cc: Billy Youdelman , John Santos , Johnny Billquist , Tim Shoppa , Terry Kennedy Subject: Re: pdp11 to PC In-Reply-To: Your message of Fri, 31 Mar 2000 17:47:46 -0500 Message-ID: > [Re my KSERVE for RT-11] > >Just send it in. We'll find a place to put it. > > You'd really be willing to accept yet another divergent PDP-11 Kermit? > Of course! > >Better still would be to reconcile Billy Youdelman's KRT version with RSTS > >and RSX. Obviously this kind of work can only be done by somebody who has > >access to these platforms -- and preferably all of them. > > You dropped me a line about this back when I announced my demo.dbit.com RSX > demo system, I'd *really* like to volunteer to merge all the K11 versions > into one (and spruce it up some, too), my problem has been not having a big > block of time to dedicate to it. > A well-known obstacle... > I figure offering to help and then maybe > dropping the ball is a lot worse than not helping at all. But if it's been > 11 years since a real release, my short-term stop & go flakiness might be > small potatoes in comparison! > Scary how fast 11 years go by. > Anyway I would like to volunteer to do the work, if you don't mind a little > scheduling uncertainty, and someone isn't already working on the merge. I > thought I saw a note recently from John Santos saying he was losing access > to his last RSTS system, so I hope that the 3-year-old stuff already > includes whatever he's done? > Right -- it looks like his RSTS version is based on Billy Y's RT version after all, so the main thing is to finish it up, then get the RSX (and IAS?) versions in line, and then replace the entire K11*.* distribution with the new consolidated on, hopefully including new binaries for all platforms, or at least some of them. All that I have here is: ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/b/k11*.* <-- Kermit-11 3.60 ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/b/krt*.* <-- Billy Y's KRT 3.63 ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/test/pdp11/.* <-- John S's RSTS version http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/pdp11.html <-- PDP-11 Kermit web page Obviously you'll want to touch base with John S, Billy Y, Johnny Billquist, and maybe Tim Shoppa and Terry Kennedy. I might as well just cc them on this reply, hope you don't mind. - Frank 1-Apr-2000 19:40:25-GMT,4040;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu (mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.35.143]) by monire.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA27194 for ; Sat, 1 Apr 2000 14:40:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from Viola.Opus1.COM (Viola.Opus1.COM [192.245.12.8]) by mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15682 for ; Sat, 1 Apr 2000 14:40:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from Opus1.COM by Opus1.COM (PMDF V5.2-32 #9830) id <01JNPZPMP60G9QUR4V@Opus1.COM> for fdc@columbia.edu; Sat, 1 Apr 2000 12:40:18 MST Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 12:34:05 -0700 (MST) From: billy@MIX.COM Subject: Re: pdp11 to PC In-reply-to: "Your message dated Sat, 01 Apr 2000 14:32:56 -0500 (EST)" Sender: Billy@MIX.COM To: Frank da Cruz Cc: John Wilson , Billy Youdelman , John Santos , Johnny Billquist , Tim Shoppa , Terry Kennedy Message-id: <01JNPZY59JDG9QUR4V@Opus1.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Hi all - Yes I too would love to see the PDP-11 Kermit get more RSTS and RSX attention, to say the very least. I have yet another RT-11 version in the works but I've been just buried with work for some time now. I expect that to lighten up soon, probably towards the end of April, at which time I'd be able to be a lot more helpful with all this. I don't have RSTS or RSX available (though others receiving this do) but I'd be happy to help in any way I can. Regards, Billy Y.. PS to John Wilson - You'll be hearing from me soon regarding E11, I'm also about to have time to resume pursuing that again too... > > [Re my KSERVE for RT-11] > > >Just send it in. We'll find a place to put it. > > > > You'd really be willing to accept yet another divergent PDP-11 Kermit? > > > Of course! > > >Better still would be to reconcile Billy Youdelman's KRT version with RSTS > > >and RSX. Obviously this kind of work can only be done by somebody who has > > >access to these platforms -- and preferably all of them. > > > > You dropped me a line about this back when I announced my demo.dbit.com RSX > > demo system, I'd *really* like to volunteer to merge all the K11 versions > > into one (and spruce it up some, too), my problem has been not having a big > > block of time to dedicate to it. > > > A well-known obstacle... > > I figure offering to help and then maybe > > dropping the ball is a lot worse than not helping at all. But if it's been > > 11 years since a real release, my short-term stop & go flakiness might be > > small potatoes in comparison! > > > Scary how fast 11 years go by. > > Anyway I would like to volunteer to do the work, if you don't mind a little > > scheduling uncertainty, and someone isn't already working on the merge. I > > thought I saw a note recently from John Santos saying he was losing access > > to his last RSTS system, so I hope that the 3-year-old stuff already > > includes whatever he's done? > > > Right -- it looks like his RSTS version is based on Billy Y's RT version > after all, so the main thing is to finish it up, then get the RSX (and IAS?) > versions in line, and then replace the entire K11*.* distribution with the > new consolidated on, hopefully including new binaries for all platforms, > or at least some of them. > All that I have here is: > ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/b/k11*.* <-- Kermit-11 3.60 > ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/b/krt*.* <-- Billy Y's KRT 3.63 > ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/test/pdp11/.* <-- John S's RSTS version > http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/pdp11.html <-- PDP-11 Kermit web page > Obviously you'll want to touch base with John S, Billy Y, Johnny Billquist, > and maybe Tim Shoppa and Terry Kennedy. I might as well just cc them on this > reply, hope you don't mind. > - Frank 2-Apr-2000 14:05:45-GMT,2720;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from watsun.cc.columbia.edu (watsun.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.39.2]) by monire.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA15749 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 10:05:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Zeke.Update.UU.SE (Zeke.Update.uu.se [130.238.11.14]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA27947 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 10:05:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (bqt@localhost) by Zeke.Update.UU.SE (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA05535; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 16:05:41 +0200 Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 16:05:40 +0200 (MET DST) From: Johnny Billquist To: Frank da Cruz cc: info-pdp11@village.org Subject: Re: pdp11 to PC In-Reply-To: <8c5hcv$aeu$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On 1 Apr 2000, Frank da Cruz wrote: > In article <38E4A9E2.C92057B@trailing-edge.com>, > Tim Shoppa wrote: > : I think that if any Kermit development should be done, it should be done > : for RSX-11 and RSTS/E. Billy Yodelman's KRT is already pretty damn good > : for use under RT-11 (though it doesn't do sliding windows). > : > : How come Johnny Billquist's "K11ATR.MAC" patches for Kermit-11 never found > : their way back to the Columbia distribution... > : > I don't know. Was it ever sent in? If so, maybe it was during a hectic > period and got buried. If not, send it in! I have the sources here, along with binaries for M+ atleast. Compiled on V4.5, but I think it should work on any V4 system. Not sure about M+ V3 though. Don't have a binaries for 11M, but I might be able to generate those. > It would be ideal to get the various Kermit-11 offshoots consolidated again, > and get a new set of binaries to go with them. Yes! Definitely. I would just like to get in touch with the other people working on K11, and get a discussion going. I could handle the RSX side... > : ... as long as we've got Frank's attention? (Does Frank really read all > : the newsgroups that might ever mention Kermit, or has he borrowed Kibo's > : Usenet scanning techniques, looking for "kermit"?) > : > I have an affection for DEC stuff. I ran DEC shops for years and years, > starting with DOS-11 on an 11/20 and finishing up with a large network of > DEC-20s, with a lot in between. :-) Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol 2-Apr-2000 16:51:47-GMT,2130;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from mailrelay2.cc.columbia.edu (mailrelay2.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.35.139]) by monire.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA02655 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 12:51:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dbit.dbit.com (dbit.dbit.com [199.181.141.53]) by mailrelay2.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09268 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 12:51:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from wilson@localhost) by dbit.dbit.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA07907; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 12:52:00 -0400 Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 12:52:00 -0400 From: John Wilson Message-Id: <200004021652.MAA07907@dbit.dbit.com> To: fdc@columbia.edu, wilson@dbit.dbit.com Subject: Re: pdp11 to PC Cc: billy@mix.com, jasantos@ultranet.com, Johnny.Billquist@netinsight.se, shoppa@trailing-edge.com, terry@tmk.com >Right -- it looks like his RSTS version is based on Billy Y's RT version >after all, so the main thing is to finish it up, then get the RSX (and IAS?) >versions in line, and then replace the entire K11*.* distribution with the >new consolidated on, hopefully including new binaries for all platforms, >or at least some of them. [...] >Obviously you'll want to touch base with John S, Billy Y, Johnny Billquist, >and maybe Tim Shoppa and Terry Kennedy. I might as well just cc them on this >reply, hope you don't mind. OK, well as long as I wouldn't be stepping on anyone's toes, I'd *love* to take on the task of merging all the K11 derivatives back together. I've been writing PDP-11 Kermits of my own since '84 so debugging with the protocol is familiar, I have several versions of RT-11, RSX, and RSTS to test on (as well as P/OS, but unfortunately I never got a full IAS distribution, it was discontinued before I got the chance and DEC has resisted my attempts to give them money). And I just got the latest release of D Bit's main product done yesterday so a whole lot of pressure is off and I'll have time for "fun" projects now. So my point is, I'm all set and ready to go, unless someone else has dibs. John Wilson D Bit 2-Apr-2000 23:10:53-GMT,3444;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from watsun.cc.columbia.edu (watsun.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.39.2]) by uhaligani.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA12264 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 19:10:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from fdc@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA16885 for fdc; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 19:10:52 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 19:10:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Frank da Cruz Message-Id: <200004022310.TAA16885@watsun.cc.columbia.edu> To: fdc@columbia.edu Newsgroups: vmsnet.pdp-11,alt.sys.pdp11,comp.os.rsts,comp.sys.dec Subject: Ersatz-11 V2.2 (PDP-11 emulator) Organization: D Bit, Troy, NY From: wilson@dbit.com (John Wilson) NNTP-Posting-Host: dbit.dbit.com X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: dbit.dbit.com Message-ID: <38e7035d_3@news.wizvax.net> Date: 2 Apr 2000 04:22:53 -0400 X-Trace: 2 Apr 2000 04:22:53 -0400, dbit.dbit.com Lines: 43 XPident: wilson X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.181.141.3 XPident: news Path: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu!panix!howland.erols.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newspeer.phoen-x.net!news.wizvax.net!dbit.com!wilson Xref: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu vmsnet.pdp-11:12495 alt.sys.pdp11:6588 comp.os.rsts:1316 comp.sys.dec:82138 A new version of Ersatz-11 is now available. V2.2 of the freeware Demo version may be downloaded from www.dbit.com as usual, and commercial users with current update subscriptions (or ones that expired only recently) will be mailed update disks tomorrow. Probably the most interesting addition for hobby users is the new VT11 vector graphic display processor emulation. Yes, it runs the Lunar Lander game. It also works nicely with the GT ON command in older versions of RT-11, as well as EDIT.SAV's scroller mode. A copy of Jack Burness's Lunar Lander game which is all set up to run under the emulator is available at: http://www.dbit.com/pub/e11/lunar/ Other changes which are visible even in the Demo version include the SET CPU FIS and SET CPU EAE options, the Interlan NI1010A/NI2010A Ethernet emulation, the built-in mini-assembler, and the overhauled manual. The full commercial V2.2 release includes the above changes, plus it adds a new DR11C/DRV11 emulation using TLC's DCI-1300 PCI board, which is pin-compatible with the DR11C/DRV11. Also there's a new DH11/DM11BB emulation, the RocketPort driver can handle ISA cards (used to be PCI only), the SCSI disk driver can partition disks on any boundary, multiple serial ports can be attached to the same emulated PDP-11 port (with duplicate output and merged input), and the Q/Unibus adapter drivers allow subsetting of the I/O page so you can have multiple adapters, to get a dual Q/Unibus system, or two identical busses for distributing heavy DMA loads. The new DMA-friendly BCI-2004 bus adapter is supported in addition to the older BCI-2003/2103 and UPG-3600 boards. Also, the DEQNA emulation now supports booting over the network. Acrobat files containing the manuals for all three versions (Demo, Lite, full) of E11 are available on the "Links" page on www.dbit.com. The Demo version's manual .PDF file is also part of the self-extracting INSTALL.EXE archive, plus it's available as a PostScript file at: ftp://ftp.dbit.com/pub/e11/e11demo.ps The E11/Linux port is nearing completion and will be released this summer, however it will probably only be available in a commercial version. John Wilson D Bit www.dbit.com 2-Apr-2000 23:13:39-GMT,2422;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from watsun.cc.columbia.edu (watsun.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.39.2]) by monire.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA26885 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 19:13:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from fdc@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA17297 for fdc; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 19:13:38 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 19:13:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Frank da Cruz Message-Id: <200004022313.TAA17297@watsun.cc.columbia.edu> To: fdc@columbia.edu Path: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu!panix!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!news.compuserve.com!news-master.compuserve.com!not-for-mail From: Kelvin Smith <74654.3313@CompuServe.COM> Newsgroups: vmsnet.pdp-11,alt.sys.pdp11 Subject: Re: pdp11 to PC Date: 2 Apr 2000 05:17:38 GMT Organization: CompuServe, Inc. (1-800-689-0736) Lines: 21 Message-ID: <8c6l5i$871$1@ssauraab-i-1.production.compuserve.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: mhakq.production.compuserve.com X-Trace: ssauraab-i-1.production.compuserve.com 954652658 8417 149.174.242.229 (2 Apr 2000 05:17:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: newsmaster@compuserve.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 2 Apr 2000 05:17:38 GMT Xref: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu vmsnet.pdp-11:12494 alt.sys.pdp11:6586 >Unfortunately, my last PDP-11 died several years ago (though I still have >its CPU and memory and a good set of TK50 backup tapes in my basement), >so I have never had the opportunity to upgrade it from a "test" version. >Maybe someday... John, if you want, I could give you a dialup account on my system, although I'm still trying to work out interaction between modems and Ersatz-11. (Dialing in from certain PC programs gives flaky results, though all here will probably not be surprised to hear that MS-DOS Kermit runs perfectly!) It's fun, though, running RSTS/E at 4 times the speed of an 11/84. (I also like saving $100 a month on power.) And that's with just a Pentium at 333 MHz (and SCSI disks-I've clocked heavy duty sorts at 10 times as fast as on the 11/84 with a CMD SCSI controller). I'm trying to remember exactly where things were left with your version of Kermit. I don't think I ever installed it, and don't remember why. I probably need to dig through my old e-mails. I've got plenty of storage space on my system, but no way to read a TK50. Kelvin Smith 2-Apr-2000 23:14:01-GMT,3515;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from watsun.cc.columbia.edu (watsun.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.39.2]) by uhaligani.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA12557 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 19:14:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from fdc@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA17365 for fdc; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 19:14:00 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 19:14:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Frank da Cruz Message-Id: <200004022314.TAA17365@watsun.cc.columbia.edu> To: fdc@columbia.edu Path: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu!panix!nycmny1-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!skynet.be!diablo.cs.uofs.edu!info.cs.uofs.edu!not-for-mail From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Newsgroups: vmsnet.pdp-11,alt.sys.pdp11 Subject: Re: pdp11 to PC Date: 2 Apr 2000 20:54:31 GMT Organization: Computing Sciences Department, University of Scranton Lines: 42 Message-ID: <8c8c27$24se$2@info.cs.uofs.edu> References: <38E48232.744386B9@trailing-edge.com> <38E4CFBD.3D5DF8BC@netinsight.se> <38e4e95c_2@news.wizvax.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: intelsrv2.cs.uofs.edu X-Trace: info.cs.uofs.edu 954708871 70542 134.198.175.122 (2 Apr 2000 20:54:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@cs.uofs.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 2 Apr 2000 20:54:31 GMT X-Newsreader: xrn 9.00 Xref: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu vmsnet.pdp-11:12503 alt.sys.pdp11:6593 In article <38e4e95c_2@news.wizvax.net>, wilson@dbit.com (John Wilson) writes: |> |> - Updated version of my KSERVE.SAV RT-11 Kermit server, which supports both |> long packets and sliding windows, and transfers substantially faster than |> classic stop 'n wait Kermit -- I wrote all the code ages ago but at the |> time I thought I saw some buggy behavior which I haven't been able to |> duplicate, and I haven't had time to get waist-deep in it again to sort |> that out. This is great. KSERVE.SAV is the first program I move to any new system I work with. |> |> - DOS clone of Megan Gentry's RTEFTP RT-11 Ethernet file transfer program. |> RTEFTP uses a simple little proprietary protocol to zip stuff between RT |> machines on the same Ethernet. It's nowhere near as fancy as TCP/IP or |> DECnet but that's what's cool about it, all you have to do is run the |> program and type "SET NAME FOO" (or not even, if the machine is only going |> to be a client), and then you can type COPY and DIR commands to shoot files |> back and forth *way* faster than Kermit. My version works but it's missing |> a few features (logging, I forget what else) and needs to be synced up with |> some minor protocol changes that Megan has in the works. |> |> Anyway being able to transfer an RL01 image in less than a minute sure |> beats 4 hours of Kermit (at 9600 baud with short packets and no sliding |> windows). |> |> So anyway, if anyone has a need for either of the above to be finished in |> the foreseeable future, drop me a line and I'll get on it during the next |> lull. My impression is that no one really cares much about this kind of |> thing, that's why I haven't moved these projects to the head of the line, |> but I'd love to be wrong. If your tabulating votes, here's a yea!! bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.uofs.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include 3-Apr-2000 9:15:18-GMT,2586;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from mailrelay2.cc.columbia.edu (mailrelay2.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.35.139]) by uhaligani.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA07140 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 05:15:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ernst.netinsight.se (ernst.netinsight.se [194.16.221.130]) by mailrelay2.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA21597 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 05:15:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from netinsight.se (unverified [10.100.1.24]) by ernst.netinsight.se (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 11:14:46 +0200 Sender: johbil@columbia.edu Message-ID: <38E86118.B6E80@netinsight.se> Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 11:15:04 +0200 From: Johnny Billquist Organization: Netinsight AB X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Wilson CC: fdc@columbia.edu, billy@mix.com, jasantos@ultranet.com, shoppa@trailing-edge.com, terry@tmk.com Subject: Re: pdp11 to PC References: <200004021652.MAA07907@dbit.dbit.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit John Wilson wrote: > > >Right -- it looks like his RSTS version is based on Billy Y's RT version > >after all, so the main thing is to finish it up, then get the RSX (and IAS?) > >versions in line, and then replace the entire K11*.* distribution with the > >new consolidated on, hopefully including new binaries for all platforms, > >or at least some of them. > [...] > >Obviously you'll want to touch base with John S, Billy Y, Johnny Billquist, > >and maybe Tim Shoppa and Terry Kennedy. I might as well just cc them on this > >reply, hope you don't mind. > > OK, well as long as I wouldn't be stepping on anyone's toes, I'd *love* > to take on the task of merging all the K11 derivatives back together. Please do. I'll help anyway I can, but I've only looked some at K11 in order to fix the most obvious problems. I've written one kermit for PDP-8s, quite a few years ago, and have not played with the more advanced features of the protocol. So I feel that I'm not an expert here, but perhaps I can contribute som RSX knowledge, along with doing tests... Johnny -- Johnny Billquist | johnny.billquist@netinsight.net Net Insight AB | phone: +46 8 685 04 88 Västberga Allé 9 | fax: +46 8 685 04 20 Box 42093 | SE-126 30 STOCKHOLM, Sweden | http://www.netinsight.net 2-Apr-2000 19:17:39-GMT,1740;000000000005 Return-Path: Received: from mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu (mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.35.143]) by fozimane.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07007 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 15:17:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from server.tmk.com (server.tmk.com [204.141.35.63]) by mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06347 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 15:17:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tmk.com by tmk.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #41576) id <01JNRJMXU01C8WW1E1@tmk.com> for fdc@columbia.edu; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 15:17:29 EDT Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2000 15:16:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Terry Kennedy Subject: Re: pdp11 to PC In-reply-to: "Your message dated Sun, 02 Apr 2000 12:52:00 -0400" <200004021652.MAA07907@dbit.dbit.com> To: John Wilson Cc: fdc@columbia.edu, wilson@dbit.dbit.com, billy@mix.com, jasantos@ultranet.com, Johnny.Billquist@netinsight.se, shoppa@trailing-edge.com, terry@tmk.com Message-id: <01JNRJQD8Q088WW1E1@tmk.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII > I've been writing PDP-11 Kermits of my own since '84 so debugging with the > protocol is familiar, I have several versions of RT-11, RSX, and RSTS to test > on (as well as P/OS, but unfortunately I never got a full IAS distribution, > it was discontinued before I got the chance and DEC has resisted my attempts > to give them money). You might try talking to Steve Schultz, sms@moe.2bsd.com, about an IAS kit. At his day job, they were one of the largest IAS users. Terry Kennedy http://www.tmk.com terry@tmk.com Jersey City, NJ USA +1 201 451 4554 (voice) +1 201 451 0900 (FAX) 2-Apr-2000 16:51:47-GMT,2130;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from mailrelay2.cc.columbia.edu (mailrelay2.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.35.139]) by monire.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA02655 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 12:51:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dbit.dbit.com (dbit.dbit.com [199.181.141.53]) by mailrelay2.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09268 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 12:51:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from wilson@localhost) by dbit.dbit.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA07907; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 12:52:00 -0400 Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 12:52:00 -0400 From: John Wilson Message-Id: <200004021652.MAA07907@dbit.dbit.com> To: fdc@columbia.edu, wilson@dbit.dbit.com Subject: Re: pdp11 to PC Cc: billy@mix.com, jasantos@ultranet.com, Johnny.Billquist@netinsight.se, shoppa@trailing-edge.com, terry@tmk.com >Right -- it looks like his RSTS version is based on Billy Y's RT version >after all, so the main thing is to finish it up, then get the RSX (and IAS?) >versions in line, and then replace the entire K11*.* distribution with the >new consolidated on, hopefully including new binaries for all platforms, >or at least some of them. [...] >Obviously you'll want to touch base with John S, Billy Y, Johnny Billquist, >and maybe Tim Shoppa and Terry Kennedy. I might as well just cc them on this >reply, hope you don't mind. OK, well as long as I wouldn't be stepping on anyone's toes, I'd *love* to take on the task of merging all the K11 derivatives back together. I've been writing PDP-11 Kermits of my own since '84 so debugging with the protocol is familiar, I have several versions of RT-11, RSX, and RSTS to test on (as well as P/OS, but unfortunately I never got a full IAS distribution, it was discontinued before I got the chance and DEC has resisted my attempts to give them money). And I just got the latest release of D Bit's main product done yesterday so a whole lot of pressure is off and I'll have time for "fun" projects now. So my point is, I'm all set and ready to go, unless someone else has dibs. John Wilson D Bit 15-Sep-2000 14:33:23-GMT,1968;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from watsun.cc.columbia.edu (watsun.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.39.2]) by fozimane.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA09172 for ; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 10:33:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from fdc@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA12716; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 10:33:14 -0400 (EDT) Sender: Frank da Cruz Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 10:33:14 EDT From: Kermit Software Support To: "David D Miller" Subject: Re: Send to K11 In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 14 Sep 2000 15:28:46 -0700 Cc: kermit-support@columbia.edu Reply-To: kermit-support@columbia.edu Message-ID: > Maybe I'm asking too much of K11. I connect from my Intel WNT via TCP/IP > using K95 to PDP-11. That works fine of course and appears on a ZT (the > TCP/IP device). > ZT == pseudoterminal? > Next test is to send a file either way. Is K11 smart enough to connect > through a ZT device instead of TT (modem) device? > If a ZT is a pseudoterminal, this should be transparent to the application. Whether it works depends on how compatible the ZT driver is to the TT driver. Anyway you're talking with a guy whose last contact with PDP-11s was circa 1980, which is long before Kermit-11 came out, so I've never personally installed, debugged, or even used K11. And as you probably have learned from the material on the website, the RSX version lags seriously behind the RT and RSTS ones, due to the lack of an RSX platform where anybody can bring it up to date. Are you saying you have a Telnetable, FTPable RSX system? If so, some of the PDP-11 Kermit people (not Brian, but his successors) might be very interested to get at it the rectify the situation. It would be nice, after all these years, to have a coherent Kermit-11 again, instead of 3 separate ones. - Frank 15-Sep-2000 20:34:04-GMT,1759;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from watsun.cc.columbia.edu (watsun.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.39.2]) by uhaligani.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13862 for ; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 16:34:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from fdc@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA18479; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 16:33:56 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 16:33:56 EDT From: Frank da Cruz To: "David D Miller" Subject: Re: Send to K11 In-Reply-To: Your message of Fri, 15 Sep 2000 13:25:00 -0700 Message-ID: > I fiddled around for an hour or so and was only able to transfer from K11 > to K95 (not the other way). But the truth is that it's easier to use FTP > (either direction). FTP from the W95 Command Screen is particularly > convenient. > It will become even more convenient in the next release. It should be possible to make Kermit work, but I truly have not heard of anybody using the RSX version in many years. The RT and RSTS versions work well. > Yes, I have a PDP-11 (an Osprey really) behind a firewall, on TCP/IP. I > looked in comp.protocols.kermit.misc to find interested parties and only > found one discussion in 20 years (in February you suggested SET ATTR OFF). > I guess that isn't a good source. Where do you suggest I find a PDP/RSX > community? > There have been a lot of private discussions. Here's the list: Billy Youdelman John Santos Johnny Billquist Tim Shoppa Terry Kennedy If you want to start up a conversation, please include me. Thanks! - Frank 21-Nov-2000 17:23:36-GMT,2396;000000000015 Return-Path: Received: from watsun.cc.columbia.edu (watsun.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.39.2]) by fozimane.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA17145 for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2000 12:23:35 -0500 (EST) Received: (from fdc@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA19945 for fdc; Tue, 21 Nov 2000 12:23:35 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 12:23:35 -0500 (EST) From: Frank da Cruz Message-Id: <200011211723.MAA19945@watsun.cc.columbia.edu> To: fdc@columbia.edu Path: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu!ord-feed.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!nntp.frontiernet.net!nntp.gblx.net!europa.netcrusader.net!63.208.208.143!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!news-out.uswest.net!diablo.cs.uofs.edu!info.cs.scranton.edu!triangle.cs.uofs.edu!bill From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11 Subject: Re: Ultrix-11 Date: 21 Nov 2000 17:09:32 GMT Organization: University of Scranton Lines: 25 Message-ID: <8vea8d$1gld$1@info.cs.uofs.edu> References: <8vbh7n$4vf$1@info.cs.uofs.edu> <3a19e007@news.adfa.edu.au> Reply-To: bill@cs.uofs.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: triangle.cs.uofs.edu X-Trace: info.cs.uofs.edu 974826573 49837 134.198.172.101 (21 Nov 2000 17:09:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@cs.uofs.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 21 Nov 2000 17:09:32 GMT X-Newsreader: xrn 9.01 Xref: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu alt.sys.pdp11:8703 In article <3a19e007@news.adfa.edu.au>, wkt@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (Warren Toomey) writes: |> In article <8vbh7n$4vf$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, |> bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: |> |> > And along the same lines, considering that Ultrix-11 runs on all |> > of the different PDP's I am likely to ever try, is there any reason |> > why I should opt for one of the BSD's in lieu of Ultrix?? |> |> TCP/IP? What!!! Do you mean to say that Ultrix-11 didn't have TCPIP?? I assumed the function set was pretty much the same between Ultrix-11 and Ultrix-32. A lack of even basic IP would make me stop even trying to get it working. Although getting BSD to work on some of my older (smaller) hardware may be equally impossible. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include 21-Nov-2000 18:07:05-GMT,1130;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from watsun.cc.columbia.edu (watsun.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.39.2]) by uhaligani.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29333 for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2000 13:07:04 -0500 (EST) Received: (from fdc@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA28736; Tue, 21 Nov 2000 13:07:04 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 13:07:03 EST From: Frank da Cruz To: bill@cs.scranton.edu Subject: Re: Ultrix-11 In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 21 Nov 2000 12:23:35 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Hi Bill. In case you actually do get Ultrix-11 running (and no, I don't know whether it includes TCP/IP) it would be quite a coup -- in the past several years I haven't succeeded in locating anybody else who has it, and I would be very interested in getting a version of Kermit built on it. Probably the only one that's small enough any more is G-Kermit: http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/gkermit.html (And in case it doesn't have TCP/IP, this would give you a way to get files in and out.) - Frank 21-Nov-2000 18:45:52-GMT,1900;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from watsun.cc.columbia.edu (watsun.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.39.2]) by monire.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA19425 for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2000 13:45:52 -0500 (EST) Received: (from fdc@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA06314; Tue, 21 Nov 2000 13:45:51 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 13:45:51 EST From: Frank da Cruz To: Bill Gunshannon Subject: Re: Ultrix-11 In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 21 Nov 2000 13:28:13 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: > Believe it or not, I'm one of your biggest fans. I put kermit on > everything I run. I use it on old PC's for consoles on my PDP and Vax > boxes. I have had it on Unix, Xenix, Minix, Primix, Primos, RT-11, RSTS, > UCSD-Pascal,... The list seems endless. I have even had the fun of making > custom versions for weird situations at work. I love it. > For me it's like a hobby that turned into job. Talk about lucking out! And as you can see, I'm kind of a fanatic at trying to get builds of Kermit for every known platform, past and present. I've been keeping an eye out for Ultrix-11 for years. > If I get Ultrix-11 to work I will be glad to build any versions you > might want. probably will take nothing but a quick (well, actually slow) > make. > Yes, some of the builds I do take upwards of 4 hours... I have a particular fondness for PDP-11's; they were *almost* my first computer, back in the days of DOS-11, Teletype consoles, and card readers. I can still hear those RK05's squeaking away -- the first mouse! And I guess they still use card readers in Florida... If it turns out you have to give up on Ultrix-11, the next best bet would be 2.11 BSD, which is still actively maintained by Steven Schultz, sms@moe.2bsd.com. - Frank 21-Nov-2000 22:40:09-GMT,3399;000000000011 Return-Path: Received: from menyapa.cc.columbia.edu (menyapa.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.38]) by uhaligani.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA23431 for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2000 17:40:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailhost.cs.uofs.edu (mailhost.cs.uofs.edu [134.198.169.1]) by menyapa.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA13410 for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2000 17:40:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from triangle.cs.uofs.edu (IDENT:root@triangle.cs.uofs.edu [134.198.172.101]) by mailhost.cs.uofs.edu (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id RAA01971 for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2000 17:40:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (bill@localhost) by triangle.cs.uofs.edu (8.9.3/8.8.6) with ESMTP id RAA02751 for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2000 17:48:10 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: triangle.cs.uofs.edu: bill owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 17:48:07 -0500 (EST) From: Bill Gunshannon To: Frank da Cruz Subject: Re: Ultrix-11 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 21 Nov 2000, Frank da Cruz wrote: > For me it's like a hobby that turned into job. Talk about lucking out! > And as you can see, I'm kind of a fanatic at trying to get builds of Kermit > for every known platform, past and present. I've been keeping an eye out > for Ultrix-11 for years. Well, the good news is I have it running!!! I will probably build another system at home tonight on a little better hardware. RL02's don't leave much room for software development. So, what sources should I grab to build Kermit for you?? Maybe I can look into building both split I&D and none binaries if the compiler does that. > Yes, some of the builds I do take upwards of 4 hours... I have a particular > fondness for PDP-11's; they were *almost* my first computer, back in the > days of DOS-11, Teletype consoles, and card readers. I can still hear those > RK05's squeaking away -- the first mouse! And I guess they still use card > readers in Florida... Not my first, but one of my favorites. It's just getting harder and harder to keep them running. I think I lost an 11\23+ CPU last night. :-( And my favorite, my 11/24 is sitting here with a dead power supply. > > If it turns out you have to give up on Ultrix-11, the next best bet would be > 2.11 BSD, which is still actively maintained by Steven Schultz, > sms@moe.2bsd.com. I have the whole CSRG CD set as well as the PUPS Archive. Sadly, BSD has limited hardware support and most later versions require split I&D which eliminates my 11/23 and 11/24. Ultrix, on the other hand, seems to have been maintained with support for all the common DEC hardware (even RL disks!!!) Now, if I can only find a documentation set. ;-) Let me know which sources you think I should use for an Ultrix-11 Kermit. I'm willing to try anything, but I doubt there's much chance of C-Kermit fitting in the PDP's memory. All the best. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include 22-Nov-2000 14:52:04-GMT,2349;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from watsun.cc.columbia.edu (watsun.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.39.2]) by monire.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA20028 for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2000 09:51:59 -0500 (EST) Received: (from fdc@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA17363 for fdc; Wed, 22 Nov 2000 09:51:58 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 09:51:58 -0500 (EST) From: Frank da Cruz Message-Id: <200011221451.JAA17363@watsun.cc.columbia.edu> To: fdc@columbia.edu Path: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu!ord-feed.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!nntp.frontiernet.net!nntp.gblx.net!feeder.via.net!news-out.uswest.net!diablo.cs.uofs.edu!info.cs.scranton.edu!triangle.cs.uofs.edu!bill From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11 Subject: Re: Ultrix-11 Date: 21 Nov 2000 22:03:34 GMT Organization: University of Scranton Lines: 26 Message-ID: <8verfm$1pmb$1@info.cs.uofs.edu> References: <8vbh7n$4vf$1@info.cs.uofs.edu> Reply-To: bill@cs.uofs.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: triangle.cs.uofs.edu X-Trace: info.cs.uofs.edu 974844214 59083 134.198.172.101 (21 Nov 2000 22:03:34 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@cs.uofs.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 21 Nov 2000 22:03:34 GMT X-Newsreader: xrn 9.01 Xref: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu alt.sys.pdp11:8709 Success!!! I now have Ultrix-11 running on a PDP-11/23 with 1M of memory and an RL02 system disk. Of course, having no documentation means that the fun is just about to begin. Now I need to figure out how to custom config the system for more realistic hardware, including networking!! Yes, a quick perusal of things like include files shows that there should be TCPIP support. Other projects will be to get it running on an 11/73 with split I&D and the use of bigger disks. Licensing details will have to be worked out, but this now means if others are interested I know how (and have the scripts) to make 9-track Ultrix-11 boot/install tapes. I'm not sure if things like TK50 are possible, but I will look into it. It's nice to have things work out once in a while. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include 14-Dec-2000 14:39:55-GMT,3416;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from watsun.cc.columbia.edu (watsun.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.39.2]) by monire.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA07108 for ; Thu, 14 Dec 2000 09:39:54 -0500 (EST) Received: (from fdc@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA25583 for fdc; Thu, 14 Dec 2000 09:39:54 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 09:39:54 -0500 (EST) From: Frank da Cruz Message-Id: <200012141439.JAA25583@watsun.cc.columbia.edu> To: fdc@columbia.edu Path: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu!panix!howland.erols.net!newspeer.monmouth.com!skynet.be!diablo.cs.uofs.edu!info.cs.scranton.edu!triangle.cs.uofs.edu!bill From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11,vmsnet.pdp-11 Subject: Ultrix-11 Status Report Date: 14 Dec 2000 14:22:03 GMT Organization: University of Scranton Lines: 49 Message-ID: <91al2b$dpi$1@info.cs.uofs.edu> Reply-To: bill@cs.scranton.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: triangle.cs.uofs.edu X-Trace: info.cs.uofs.edu 976803723 14130 134.198.172.101 (14 Dec 2000 14:22:03 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@cs.uofs.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Dec 2000 14:22:03 GMT X-Newsreader: xrn 9.01 Xref: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu alt.sys.pdp11:9046 vmsnet.pdp-11:15317 Success!! Well, sort of.... I now have Ultrix-11 with TCPIP support running on an 11/23+ with 4M of memory. It is still not particularly functional, but at least it no longer panics going into multi-user mode. Problems: There seems to be insufficient buffer space allocated for TCPIP use. This causes FTP to not be able to transfer anything. It appears that the .o files needed to build a split I&D kernel ar missing or maybe it's just the makefile that's messed up. haven't had time to look into it in too much depth as I just got it running at all last night. And the big one!!! This one especially for Warren if he's listening as it affects the archive. It looks like the Ultrix-11 3.1 is actually Ultrix-11 3.0. Either that or DEC forgot to change all the version info in the sources. :-) wizard# uname -a ULTRIX-11 wizard 3 0 PDP-11/23 wizard# I plan to continue working on getting Ultrix-11 running in a usable fashion. I also plan to look into getting BSD-2.9 running on these boxes as well. I looked at 2.10 but while it mentions in one section running on cpus like the 11/23 and 11/24 it later says it requires split I&D and a non-split I&D version is not likely to be done. I am still looking for a set of Ultrix-11 manuals and will gladly pay shipping if soemone has a set hidden away somewhere that they are willing to part with. It would definitely make building kernels a lot easier. This running system is at home. I am going to try and get a another small system up here in the lab. If I can, I will put it on the net with a guest account so people can take a look at it if they want. I'll post info here if that happens before I quit for the rest of the year, which happens tonight!! bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include 20-Dec-2000 20:12:59-GMT,3389;000000000011 Return-Path: Received: from kachifo.cc.columbia.edu (kachifo.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.172]) by monire.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA26143 for ; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 15:12:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailhost.cs.uofs.edu (mailhost.cs.uofs.edu [134.198.169.1]) by kachifo.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA18691 for ; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 15:12:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from triangle.cs.uofs.edu (IDENT:root@triangle.cs.uofs.edu [134.198.172.101]) by mailhost.cs.uofs.edu (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id PAA30381 for ; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 15:13:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (bill@localhost) by triangle.cs.uofs.edu (8.9.3/8.8.6) with ESMTP id PAA22651 for ; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 15:13:03 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: triangle.cs.uofs.edu: bill owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 15:13:01 -0500 (EST) From: Bill Gunshannon To: Frank da Cruz Subject: Re: Ultrix-11 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 21 Nov 2000, Frank da Cruz wrote: > Hi Bill. In case you actually do get Ultrix-11 running (and no, I don't > know whether it includes TCP/IP) it would be quite a coup -- in the past > several years I haven't succeeded in locating anybody else who has it, Well, as you may have seen, I have succeeded in getting it running on an 11/23+. And it does have TCPIP (and supposedly DECNET but I haven't figured that part out yet) support. I am still hoping to get it running on a Split I&D machine. > and I would be very interested in getting a version of Kermit built on > it. Probably the only one that's small enough any more is G-Kermit: > > http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/gkermit.html Done. Only one small problem that wasn't covered in your instructions. As regards: . Only relatively short identifiers. In gkproto.w (and subsequently in gkproto.c) your have a function "streamon" and an int variable "streamok" these are not unique in the first 7 characters. We're talking an old compiler here.... I fixed this with the flag -Dstreamon=strmon. Not clean, but it compiled. Other than that I used -DULONG-long and -DSMALL as suggested in the docs. There is very limited buffer space, bu tthat may be only in the non-split I&D version. It means you have to keep packet sizes down to something reasonable and turn off Streaming. But other than that, it seems to work OK. I have used it to move a rather large tar file (well, large for this machine anyway) and an entire RL02 disk image. Do you want me to send you a binary?? Or would you feel more comfortable building a binary yourself?? It's a slow machine, but I can give you access to it if you want. > > (And in case it doesn't have TCP/IP, this would give you a way to get > files in and out.) Sometimes, kermit is a good solution even when you have TCPIP because of the difference in overhead!! bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include 20-Dec-2000 20:20:28-GMT,1739;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from watsun.cc.columbia.edu (watsun.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.39.2]) by monire.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28375 for ; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 15:20:28 -0500 (EST) Received: (from fdc@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA04446; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 15:20:27 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 15:20:26 EST From: Frank da Cruz To: Bill Gunshannon Subject: Re: Ultrix-11 In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 20 Dec 2000 15:13:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: > > and I would be very interested in getting a version of Kermit built on > > it. Probably the only one that's small enough any more is G-Kermit: > > > > http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/gkermit.html > > Done. Only one small problem that wasn't covered in your instructions. > > As regards: > . Only relatively short identifiers. > OK, I'll add this to the instructions. > There is very limited buffer space, bu tthat may be only in the non-split > I&D version. It means you have to keep packet sizes down to something > reasonable and turn off Streaming. But other than that, it seems to work > OK. I have used it to move a rather large tar file (well, large for this > machine anyway) and an entire RL02 disk image. > Not a bad test! > Do you want me to send you a binary?? > Yes please. Just uuencode it and mail it would be easiest. > Or would you feel more comfortable building a binary > yourself?? It's a slow machine, but I can give you access to it if you > want. > I'd love to have an account for trying new things on old platforms (my hobby, er, job). Thanks! - Frank 20-Dec-2000 20:42:28-GMT,1414;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from watsun.cc.columbia.edu (watsun.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.39.2]) by uhaligani.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA11144 for ; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 15:42:27 -0500 (EST) Received: (from fdc@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA07419; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 15:42:27 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 15:42:26 EST From: Frank da Cruz To: Bill Gunshannon Subject: Re: Ultrix-11 In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 20 Dec 2000 15:13:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: > I fixed this with the flag -Dstreamon=strmon. Not clean, but it compiled. > Other than that I used -DULONG-long and -DSMALL as suggested in the docs. > And you used the bsd target? So your make command was: make bsd "KFLAGS=-Dstreamon=strmon -DULONG=long -DSMALL" > There is very limited buffer space, bu tthat may be only in the non-split > I&D version. It means you have to keep packet sizes down to something > reasonable... > Like what size? Btw, what is the PDP-11 model again? 11/34? And what kind of serial interface was used (DH11, DZ11, ...)? Which kind of flow control do you use? I updated the web page: http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/gkermit.html with what I know so far. Any additional tidbits would be welcome. Thanks again! - Frank 5-Jan-2001 23:03:37-GMT,842;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from watsun.cc.columbia.edu (watsun.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.39.2]) by monire.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA01804 for ; Sat, 6 Jan 2001 18:03:36 -0500 (EST) Received: (from fdc@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA09612; Sat, 6 Jan 2001 18:03:35 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 18:03:35 EST From: Frank da Cruz To: Bill Gunshannon Subject: Re: Ultrix-11 In-Reply-To: Your message of Sat, 6 Jan 2001 17:55:13 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Got it, thanks! It's enshrined at: http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/gkermit.html Also pls look at Note 9 in Section 12 of that page, to see if I summarized your comments right. Thanks again! - Frank 18-Jan-2001 14:59:30-GMT,2495;000000000005 Return-Path: Received: from watsun.cc.columbia.edu (watsun.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.39.2]) by monire.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23375 for ; Thu, 18 Jan 2001 09:59:28 -0500 (EST) Received: (from fdc@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA14980 for fdc; Thu, 18 Jan 2001 09:59:28 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 09:59:28 -0500 (EST) From: Frank da Cruz Message-Id: <200101181459.JAA14980@watsun.cc.columbia.edu> To: fdc@columbia.edu Path: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu!panix!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!news-out.uswest.net!diablo.cs.uofs.edu!info.cs.scranton.edu!triangle.cs.uofs.edu!bill From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11 Subject: Ultrix-11 Latest News Date: 17 Jan 2001 19:52:57 GMT Organization: University of Scranton Lines: 31 Message-ID: <944t6p$1o3d$1@info.cs.uofs.edu> Reply-To: bill@cs.scranton.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: triangle.cs.uofs.edu X-Trace: info.cs.uofs.edu 979761177 57453 134.198.172.101 (17 Jan 2001 19:52:57 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@cs.uofs.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 17 Jan 2001 19:52:57 GMT X-Newsreader: xrn 9.01 Xref: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu alt.sys.pdp11:9239 Ok, here it is. An 11/23+ running Ultrix-11 3.1, available on the Net. telnet to 134.198.175.226 login as guest password is ultrix11 Don't expect much. As I said, it's only an 11/23+. It has 3M of memory and an RA81 disk. Things like ftp "run", but they don't "work". Look to be lack of buffer space, but without any documentation I have not found out how to tune it any more than it is now. Of course, if I ever get an 11/73 running I could build a split I&D system which should be considerably better. Please don't try to crash it. It is likely to do that all by itself anyway and you would just keep others from trying it out. No, it's not running any critical applications. If you want to move some code over to try the compiler or something, try "gkermit". But remember, it won;t stream and it needs real small packets. I await any comments and am still hoping someone will find a box of Ultrix-11 docs sitting in a closet somewhere that I will gladly pay to ship here. All the best. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include 18-Jan-2001 14:59:30-GMT,2495;000000000005 Return-Path: Received: from watsun.cc.columbia.edu (watsun.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.39.2]) by monire.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23375 for ; Thu, 18 Jan 2001 09:59:28 -0500 (EST) Received: (from fdc@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA14980 for fdc; Thu, 18 Jan 2001 09:59:28 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 09:59:28 -0500 (EST) From: Frank da Cruz Message-Id: <200101181459.JAA14980@watsun.cc.columbia.edu> To: fdc@columbia.edu Path: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu!panix!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!news-out.uswest.net!diablo.cs.uofs.edu!info.cs.scranton.edu!triangle.cs.uofs.edu!bill From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11 Subject: Ultrix-11 Latest News Date: 17 Jan 2001 19:52:57 GMT Organization: University of Scranton Lines: 31 Message-ID: <944t6p$1o3d$1@info.cs.uofs.edu> Reply-To: bill@cs.scranton.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: triangle.cs.uofs.edu X-Trace: info.cs.uofs.edu 979761177 57453 134.198.172.101 (17 Jan 2001 19:52:57 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@cs.uofs.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 17 Jan 2001 19:52:57 GMT X-Newsreader: xrn 9.01 Xref: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu alt.sys.pdp11:9239 Ok, here it is. An 11/23+ running Ultrix-11 3.1, available on the Net. telnet to 134.198.175.226 login as guest password is ultrix11 Don't expect much. As I said, it's only an 11/23+. It has 3M of memory and an RA81 disk. Things like ftp "run", but they don't "work". Look to be lack of buffer space, but without any documentation I have not found out how to tune it any more than it is now. Of course, if I ever get an 11/73 running I could build a split I&D system which should be considerably better. Please don't try to crash it. It is likely to do that all by itself anyway and you would just keep others from trying it out. No, it's not running any critical applications. If you want to move some code over to try the compiler or something, try "gkermit". But remember, it won;t stream and it needs real small packets. I await any comments and am still hoping someone will find a box of Ultrix-11 docs sitting in a closet somewhere that I will gladly pay to ship here. All the best. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include 11-Feb-2001 20:08:54-GMT,1644;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from watsun.cc.columbia.edu (watsun.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.39.2]) by uhaligani.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA19590 for ; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 15:08:54 -0500 (EST) Received: (from fdc@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA02445; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 15:08:46 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 15:08:46 EST From: Frank da Cruz To: Johnny Billquist Cc: Billy Youdelman , John Santos , Tim Shoppa , Terry Kennedy Subject: Re: RSX-11M Hobby License, Was: One uping the VAX, again!! In-Reply-To: Your message of Sun, 11 Feb 2001 21:05:44 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: > On Sun, 11 Feb 2001, Frank da Cruz wrote: > > > > Let me know how to go along here, Frank, and I'll try to find the time. > > > > > Ideally, whoever takes on this project would coordinate with Billy > > Youdelman (who did the RT-11 updates) and John Santos (who did the RSTS > > ones). The main thing is just to merge their changes back into the > > common source, and incorporate the functional improvements into the > > RSX and IAS versions. > > Fine with me. Could Billy or John tell me what files have changed from the > K11 version... > I hope so. > ... or should I grab it all, and try to diff them? > If you don't hear from them, I suppose that's the only choice. > Are krt* just changes and additions to k11*, or have the "old" RSX stuff > been removed from krt*? > I don't know. - Frank 11-Feb-2001 20:19:10-GMT,2452;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from kachifo.cc.columbia.edu (kachifo.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.172]) by uhaligani.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA21263 for ; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 15:19:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from cello.Opus1.COM (Cello.Opus1.COM [192.245.12.7]) by kachifo.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA10724 for ; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 15:19:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from Opus1.COM by Opus1.COM (PMDF V5.2-33 #9830) id <01JZZGYD8WRK8Y9H0M@Opus1.COM> for fdc@columbia.edu; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 13:19:04 MST Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 13:07:00 -0700 (MST) From: billy@MIX.COM Subject: Re: RSX-11M Hobby License, Was: One uping the VAX, again!! In-reply-to: "Your message dated Sun, 11 Feb 2001 21:05:44 +0100 (CET)" Sender: Billy@MIX.COM To: Johnny Billquist Cc: Frank da Cruz , Billy Youdelman , John Santos , Tim Shoppa , Terry Kennedy Message-id: <01JZZHEBZPY08Y9H0M@Opus1.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII References: Hi - > Fine with me. Could Billy or John tell me what files have changed from the > K11 version Pretty much everything that the RT-11 version uses has changed, all files are listed in krt.doc and will have 'KRT' in their first three letters as opposed to 'K11' while the remainders of the filenames pretty much remain the same. Then John Santos has a RSTS version of all this with some further updates and which includes the various RSTS-specific modules. So, it would be best to start with his copy of that. I added some comments to the RT-11 version for what was included in the last release of the os itself, but all this can wait until after you get something running to be added back in to a multi-os version.. > Are krt* just changes and additions to k11*, or have the "old" RSX stuff > been removed from krt*? There are some additional RSX modules in K11 that weren't carried over to the RT-11 (KRT) version - these are things like the terminal emulator, RMS and so forth. It hopefully won't be too hard to sort out but I'll be happy to help answer any quesions that arise, so feel free to ask for whatever additional help you need with all this. Billy Y.. 11-Feb-2001 20:28:44-GMT,2012;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from kachifo.cc.columbia.edu (kachifo.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.172]) by monire.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA10968 for ; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 15:28:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from cello.Opus1.COM (Cello.Opus1.COM [192.245.12.7]) by kachifo.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12733 for ; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 15:28:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from Opus1.COM by Opus1.COM (PMDF V5.2-33 #9830) id <01JZZGYD8WRK8Y9H0M@Opus1.COM> for fdc@columbia.edu; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 13:28:41 MST Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 13:23:41 -0700 (MST) From: billy@MIX.COM Subject: Re: RSX-11M Hobby License, Was: One uping the VAX, again!! In-reply-to: "Your message dated Sun, 11 Feb 2001 21:05:44 +0100 (CET)" Sender: Billy@MIX.COM To: Johnny Billquist Cc: Frank da Cruz , Billy Youdelman , Tim Shoppa , Terry Kennedy Message-id: <01JZZHQ9RYR68Y9H0M@Opus1.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII References: I wrote - | Then John Santos has a RSTS version of all this with some further updates | and which includes the various RSTS-specific modules. | | So, it would be best to start with his copy of that. But then received this - # ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- # # # ----- Transcript of session follows ----- # procmail: Zero permissions on mailbox "/var/mail/ultranet/j/a/jasantos" # procmail: Error while writing to "/var/mail/ultranet/j/a/jasantos" # 550 ... Can't create output: Error 0 Hopefully John won't be too hard to find. I have an older copy of what he was working on but you've caught me with the PDP-11s down for maintenance today so I can't get at it just now... Billy Y.. 20-Feb-2001 19:22:51-GMT,2855;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from kachifo.cc.columbia.edu (kachifo.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.172]) by monire.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07024 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 14:22:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from Viola.Opus1.COM (Viola.Opus1.COM [192.245.12.8]) by kachifo.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06741 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 14:22:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from Opus1.COM by Opus1.COM (PMDF V5.2-33 #9830) id <01K0BZCND70G8X62WW@Opus1.COM> for kermit-support@columbia.edu; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 12:22:08 MST Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 12:06:12 -0700 (MST) From: billy@MIX.COM Subject: RE: File transfert problem between PDP-11 and HP In-reply-to: "Your message dated Tue, 20 Feb 2001 13:24:12 -0500 (EST)" Sender: Billy@MIX.COM To: Kermit Software Support Cc: "Costeux, Jean-Pierre" , kermit-support@columbia.edu, Billy Youdelman , Johnny Billquist , Tim Shoppa Message-id: <01K0C01UF66U8X62WW@Opus1.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Hi - > One obvious problem might be that T3.56 is not the latest version of PDP-11 > Kermit. The current version for RT11 and TSX+ is 3.62: > http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/pdp11.html > Maybe this will make a difference. Yes it will help here. > > What the customer does: > > - he boots RT11-SJ then TSX-Plus V6.40 on his PDP-11 > > - on the HP745 system he runs C-Kermit with the > > following parameters: > > - Line: /dev/tty0p0 > > - Speed: 9600 bauds > > - Mode: local > > - Duplex: full > > - Flow: XON/XOFF > > > > - from the PDP-11 run as server they connect locally on the HP system > > then they start to copy files. > > > > After some files copied they get the error I mentioned above. If after installing up-to-date versions of Kermit on both systems in use here if the problem occurs again there are two things that may be done to help - either use TSX's CL handler (communications line driver, TSX may have to be rebuilt to include it if it is not now present) to drive the port which Kermit is using, or reduce the packet size when transmitting data to the PDP-11. If the transfers are being done via the PDP-11 console port simply reducing the packet length such that buffer overruns don't occur on incoming files is the only practical solution. Sometimes packets as small as 56 bytes are necessary to prevent buffer overruns. The CL handler is prefered if possible as it is far more efficient. In any case if I can be of any further help please feel free to ask. Regards, Billy Youdelman billy@MIX.COM Maintainer of the RT-11/TSX Kermit 1-Mar-2001 22:14:08-GMT,3223;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from watsun.cc.columbia.edu (watsun.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.39.2]) by monire.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA03556 for ; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 17:14:07 -0500 (EST) Received: (from fdc@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA13231 for fdc; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 17:14:07 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 17:14:07 -0500 (EST) From: Frank da Cruz Message-Id: <200103012214.RAA13231@watsun.cc.columbia.edu> To: fdc@columbia.edu Path: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu!phl-feed.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!nntp.frontiernet.net!nntp.gblx.net!europa.netcrusader.net!193.162.153.122!news.tele.dk!151.189.0.75!newsfeed.germany.net!blackbush.xlink.net!newsfeed.freenet.de!news.rwth-aachen.de!gmd.de!gmdtub!beagle!hbb From: Harti Brandt Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11 Subject: Begemot PDP-11 emulator version 2.9 Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 13:55:00 +0100 Organization: GMD-FIRST Lines: 55 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: beagle.fokus.gmd.de Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Xref: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu alt.sys.pdp11:9423 Hello, Version 2.9 of p11 - the Begemot PDP-11 emulator - is available on ftp.fokus.gmd.de:/pub/cats/usr/harti/p11. This release supports the following platforms: FreeBSD [45].0 Sparc-Solaris 2.[678] Redhat-Linux It will possibly work on FreeBSD [23].* and other Linux variants. To build it you need libbegemot (avalaible in the same location), gcc and gmake. Previous versions also built on BSD/OS and SunOS. A version of the emulator is run on one of our machines. Try one of the following (it may not always be available): telnet scotty.fokus.gmd.de 10000 telnet scotty.fokus.gmd.de 10001 telnet scotty.fokus.gmd.de 10002 telnet scotty.fokus.gmd.de 10003 to get connected to one of the four available terminals. If telnet connects, but this terminal is currently in use, you'll get a short message. You should then try connecting to another port. Once you are online, log into 2.11BSD with username and password guest/guest1. Don't forget to logout, before disconnecting with telnet. Note, that there is an IP connection to the host machine, but not to the outside world (this is due to IP routing restrictions in out network). The current implementation emulates a KDJ11A, one or more RLV12, RHV??, RK11 disk controllers, a boot ROM, one or more KL11A controllers, a DEQNA ethernet adapter, a read-only TM11 tape, a standard line printer interface and a Toy clock. A boot ROM (with source code) to boot from RL/RK and RP discs is included. On a 900MHz Athlons a full 'make world install' of 2.11BSD takes a little about 2 hours, which is several times faster than a real PDP. Floating point performance is even higher. The emulator hast tested with 2.11BSD, RSX and RSX-PLUS, RT V4, V[567]-Unix and XXDP. To build the emulator you also need libbegemot. You can find it at the same address as the emulator. Enjoy, Harti Brandt -- harti brandt, http://www.fokus.gmd.de/research/cc/cats/employees/hartmut.brandt/private brandt@fokus.gmd.de, harti@begemot.org 13-Mar-2001 12:41:07-GMT,2165;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from menyapa.cc.columbia.edu (menyapa.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.38]) by uhaligani.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA07081 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 07:41:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from ernst.netinsight.se (mail2.netinsight.se [212.209.170.195]) by menyapa.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA20500 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 07:41:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from netinsight.se (unverified [10.100.1.24]) by ernst.netinsight.se (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 13:41:00 +0100 Sender: johbil@columbia.edu Message-ID: <3AAE155B.C1CDD020@netinsight.se> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 13:40:59 +0100 From: Johnny Billquist Reply-To: bqt@update.uu.se Organization: Netinsight AB X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joseph_J_Spinale@rrfc.raytheon.com CC: Frank da Cruz Subject: Re: Request for KERMIT to run onpdp11/53 with Micro/RSX (version 4.1 ) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello, Joseph. Through Frank da Cruz, I got this request. > To whom it may concern at Columbia University, > > I would like to obtain a RX-50 floppy disk copy of KERMIT to run on a > pdp11/53 with Micro/RSX (version 4.1) operating system software here at > Raytheon in Andover, MA. Could you please provide me with the necessary > information for obtaining this software? I am able to create RX50 floppies, and I'm running RSX here. My only problem is that I don't have any empty RX50 floppies. If that can be solved, I could help you out. I'm located in Sweden, but floppies are pretty cheap to send. Regards, Johnny -- Johnny Billquist | johnny.billquist@netinsight.net Net Insight AB | phone: +46 8 685 04 88 Västberga Allé 9 | fax: +46 8 685 04 20 Box 42093 | SE-126 30 STOCKHOLM, Sweden | http://www.netinsight.net 5-Apr-2001 15:56:39-GMT,1642;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from menyapa.cc.columbia.edu (menyapa.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.38]) by monire.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24621 for ; Thu, 5 Apr 2001 11:56:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Tempo.Update.UU.SE (Tempo.Update.UU.SE [130.238.19.17]) by menyapa.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00902 for ; Thu, 5 Apr 2001 11:56:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (bqt@localhost) by Tempo.Update.UU.SE (8.11.2/8.11.2/Update-Iltempogigante) with ESMTP id f35FuFH07336; Thu, 5 Apr 2001 17:56:15 +0200 Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 17:56:14 +0200 (CEST) From: Johnny Billquist To: Billy Youdelman , John Santos , Tim Shoppa , Terry Kennedy cc: Frank da Cruz Subject: KRT. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi, Gang. I've been peeking some at KRT in order to perhaps get it working on RSX, but I think I've decided to skip it. Too much RT-11 stuff have creeped in all over the place. The original separation between OS-dependant and independat stuff in K11 looks like it was lost somewhere along the way. I'll start looking at ways to clean up K11 instead, as my time permits. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol 18-May-2001 17:36:44-GMT,2056;000000000011 Return-Path: Received: from mailhost.cs.uofs.edu (mailhost.cs.uofs.edu [134.198.169.1]) by kachifo.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28455 for ; Fri, 18 May 2001 13:36:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from server1.cs.scranton.edu (server1.cs.uofs.edu [134.198.169.2]) by mailhost.cs.uofs.edu (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id NAA87252 for ; Fri, 18 May 2001 13:40:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (bill@localhost) by server1.cs.scranton.edu (8.9.3/8.8.6) with ESMTP id NAA22871 for ; Fri, 18 May 2001 13:36:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: server1.cs.scranton.edu: bill owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 13:36:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Gunshannon X-Sender: bill@server1.cs.scranton.edu To: Frank da Cruz Subject: Re: Ultrix? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 18 May 2001, Frank da Cruz wrote: > Hi Bill. I can't seem to get thru to either of your Ultrix systems to > build C-Kermit 7.1 Beta.01: Hmmm... Telnet to 24.49.73.145 login as fdc telnet to vax2 login as fdc That should get you into the home system. Stuff here is shut down while I re-arrange the lab to facilitate my recent acquizitions, a pair of 11/44's. One will be running Ultrix-11. Interested in building a split I&D version of GKermit?? I don't imagine CKermit will fit even with split I&D. The other will be running RSTS/E most of the time. Has anyone tried porting GKermit to RSTS yet?? > > http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ck71.html > > Are they still there? > > Thanks! Good luck and have fun. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include 18-May-2001 18:00:39-GMT,1806;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from watsun.cc.columbia.edu (watsun.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.39.2]) by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA09612 for ; Fri, 18 May 2001 14:00:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from fdc@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA10809; Fri, 18 May 2001 14:00:32 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 14:00:32 EDT From: Frank da Cruz To: Bill Gunshannon Subject: Re: Ultrix? In-Reply-To: Your message of Fri, 18 May 2001 13:36:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: > Telnet to 24.49.73.145 > ... > That should get you into the home system. > OK... (different directions since last time) > Stuff here is shut down while I re-arrange the lab to facilitate my > recent acquizitions, a pair of 11/44's. One will be running Ultrix-11. > Interested in building a split I&D version of GKermit?? > Sure, why not. But the non-I&D version should run on both, right? > I don't imagine > CKermit will fit even with split I&D. > Nope, those days are past. The last C-Kermit that ran on an -11 was 6.0, on 2.11BSD, which required lots of overlays. Does Ultrix allow overlays? If so, it might be an interesting exercise (for somebody who had time :-) > The other will be running RSTS/E most of the time. Has anyone tried > porting GKermit to RSTS yet?? > Nobody has ever ported G-Kermit to any non-UNIX platform, so that would be a first! (I actually used to manage a very big RSTS installation, but that was back in the RSTS 6.x days, when the only language was Basic -- Fortran and Macro were there too but kind of hard to get at.) What do you use for a C compiler? DECUS C? > Good luck and have fun. > I'll try, thanks! - Frank 18-May-2001 20:30:53-GMT,3028;000000000011 Return-Path: Received: from mailhost.cs.uofs.edu (mailhost.cs.uofs.edu [134.198.169.1]) by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA06719 for ; Fri, 18 May 2001 16:30:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from server1.cs.scranton.edu (server1.cs.uofs.edu [134.198.169.2]) by mailhost.cs.uofs.edu (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id QAA87898 for ; Fri, 18 May 2001 16:34:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (bill@localhost) by server1.cs.scranton.edu (8.9.3/8.8.6) with ESMTP id QAA23049 for ; Fri, 18 May 2001 16:30:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: server1.cs.scranton.edu: bill owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 16:30:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Gunshannon X-Sender: bill@server1.cs.scranton.edu To: Frank da Cruz Subject: Re: Ultrix? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 18 May 2001, Frank da Cruz wrote: > > Telnet to 24.49.73.145 > > ... > > That should get you into the home system. > > > OK... (different directions since last time) Well, my ISP changed all the DHCP addresses when they gave me a new cable modem. That's probably why. > > > Stuff here is shut down while I re-arrange the lab to facilitate my > > recent acquizitions, a pair of 11/44's. One will be running Ultrix-11. > > Interested in building a split I&D version of GKermit?? > > > Sure, why not. But the non-I&D version should run on both, right? Yeah, just thought it would make for something different. > > > I don't imagine > > CKermit will fit even with split I&D. > > > Nope, those days are past. The last C-Kermit that ran on an -11 was 6.0, > on 2.11BSD, which required lots of overlays. Does Ultrix allow overlays? > If so, it might be an interesting exercise (for somebody who had time :-) Yep. The kernel is overlayed itself, even on split I&D machines. > > > The other will be running RSTS/E most of the time. Has anyone tried > > porting GKermit to RSTS yet?? > > > Nobody has ever ported G-Kermit to any non-UNIX platform, so that would be > a first! Maybe I'll take a look at it. Could be fun. > (I actually used to manage a very big RSTS installation, but that > was back in the RSTS 6.x days, when the only language was Basic -- Fortran > and Macro were there too but kind of hard to get at.) I always liked RSTS. Now I have a chance to get back to it with a current version. Y2K ready and everything!! > What do you use for > a C compiler? DECUS C? The DEC PDP-11 C Compiler. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include 18-May-2001 20:44:40-GMT,2351;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from watsun.cc.columbia.edu (watsun.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.39.2]) by menyapa.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA12525 for ; Fri, 18 May 2001 16:44:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from fdc@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA04271; Fri, 18 May 2001 16:44:34 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 16:44:34 EDT From: Frank da Cruz To: Bill Gunshannon Subject: Re: Ultrix? In-Reply-To: Your message of Fri, 18 May 2001 16:30:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: > > > I don't imagine > > > CKermit will fit even with split I&D. > > > > Nope, those days are past. The last C-Kermit that ran on an -11 was 6.0, > > on 2.11BSD, which required lots of overlays. Does Ultrix allow overlays? > > If so, it might be an interesting exercise (for somebody who had time :-) > > Yep. The kernel is overlayed itself, even on split I&D machines. > Well if you're ever bored, you can take a look at how it was done for 2.11BSD in: ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/f/ckubs2.mak I also used to build C-Kermit (a VERY long time ago) on Venix 1.x and 2.x, which used code mapping instead of overlays... > > > The other will be running RSTS/E most of the time. Has anyone tried > > > porting GKermit to RSTS yet?? > > > > > Nobody has ever ported G-Kermit to any non-UNIX platform, so that would be > > a first! > > Maybe I'll take a look at it. Could be fun. > I broke out the i/o into separate modules so you'd just need to replace gunixio.c with (a new) grstsio.c, in theory. In practice, I might have hardwired some assumptions about record form (line ends) into the mainline code. > I always liked RSTS. Now I have a chance to get back to it with a current > version. Y2K ready and everything!! > I never saw it after V6 or maybe V7, when you were just in Basic+ all the time, but with some way to start the RT-11 runtime system so you could run Macro and Fortran. I understand that later it got more like VMS, with DCL and everything... Before RSTS I used DOS-11 -- with cards even! > > What do you use for a C compiler? DECUS C? > > The DEC PDP-11 C Compiler. > Yikes, I had no idea that ever existed outside of Ultrix. Thanks for bringing up the VAX! - Frank 30-May-2001 20:45:06-GMT,2110;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from bass.opus1.com (Bass.Opus1.COM [192.245.12.9]) by menyapa.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA05117; Wed, 30 May 2001 16:44:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Opus1.COM by Opus1.COM (PMDF V5.2-33 #9830) id <01K46CAVVQR49AN6FQ@Opus1.COM>; Wed, 30 May 2001 13:44:36 MST Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 13:09:13 -0700 (MST) From: billy@MIX.COM Subject: Re: yet another kermit bootstrapping question In-reply-to: "Your message dated Wed, 30 May 2001 16:00:44 -0400 (EDT)" Sender: Billy@MIX.COM To: X-ray photoelectron spectroscopy Cc: Frank da Cruz , Billy Youdelman , John Santos , Johnny Billquist , Tim Shoppa , Terry Kennedy , Kermit Support Message-id: <01K46DRAIJ789AN6FQ@Opus1.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Hi - > ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/b/ > -rw-rw-r-- 1 root kermit 2735 Jun 13 1989 k11hex.b2s This may be useful if BASIC+2 is available on the PDP-11. > -rw-rw-r-- 1 root kermit 3827 Jun 13 1989 k11hex.ftn I'm using this, the Fortran version, but I don't have RSX. It does both decoding and encoding and works fine. > -rw-rw-r-- 1 root kermit 4042 Jun 13 1989 k11hex.mac Unfortunately this one is for RT-11 only.. Then, these program images are (see k11ins.doc for more details and k11fil.doc for a complete list of all Kermit-11 files) - Kermit-11 for IAS 3.1 (similar to RSX but not the same..) -rw-rw-r-- 1 root kermit 199296 Aug 16 1988 k11i31.hex Kermit-11 with RMS libraries on disk overlays -rw-rw-r-- 1 root kermit 441216 Jun 13 1989 k11nrs.hex Kermit-11 for P/OS (RSX on PRO-hardware) -rw-rw-r-- 1 root kermit 270720 Jun 13 1989 k11pos.hex Kermit-11 for RSX -rw-rw-r-- 1 root kermit 361728 Jun 13 1989 k11rsx.hex Billy Y.. Maintainer of the RT-11 Kermit 30-May-2001 22:11:35-GMT,3672;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from Newman.egh.com (egandh-cv.sdsl.shore.net [209.192.204.112]) by kachifo.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA05780 for ; Wed, 30 May 2001 18:11:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from resend@localhost) by Newman.egh.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id SAA12481 for ; Wed, 30 May 2001 18:11:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: Newman.egh.com: resend set sender to using -f Received: from Ives.egh.com by Ives.egh.com (MX V4.1 AXP) with SMTP; Wed, 30 May 2001 18:10:41 EDT Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 18:10:31 -0400 From: John Santos To: Michael Quinlan CC: Frank da Cruz Subject: Re: yet another kermit bootstrapping question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1010530175934.52578A-100000@Ives.egh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 30 May 2001, Michael Quinlan wrote: > On Wed, 30 May 2001, Frank da Cruz wrote: > > > > -rw-rw-r-- 1 root kermit 286848 Jun 13 1989 k11.hex > > -rw-rw-r-- 1 root kermit 2735 Jun 13 1989 k11hex.b2s > > -rw-rw-r-- 1 root kermit 2525 Jun 13 1989 k11hex.bas > > -rw-rw-r-- 1 root kermit 214 Jun 13 1989 k11hex.com > > -rw-rw-r-- 1 root kermit 3827 Jun 13 1989 k11hex.ftn > > -rw-rw-r-- 1 root kermit 4042 Jun 13 1989 k11hex.mac > > > > > As you can see, there are k11hex (hex-file decoder) programs in at least > > Basic, Fortran, and Macro. > > > 1. Thank you very much for your reply. I am grateful for your > assistance. I suspect from your CC: list that this is not a regular part > of your work assignment, so my gratitude is multiplied. > > 2. You have clearly identified the heart of my problem. The pdp-11/73 > was sent bare-bones by the British instrument manufacturer as a piece of > OEM equipment sans manuals or higher level languages such as basic or > fortran. Everything I have read at ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/b/ > seems to indicate that I need a version of k11hex.mac written for rsx > instead of rt-11 to get started. > > 3. Short of translating k11hex.mac into macro for rsx, do I have any > options? Do you have any removable media (disks or tapes)? If so, maybe someone could put the binary version of K11RSX.TSK on one for you. Or if you have a compatable floppy drive, download it to a PC and copy to a floppy. (There are various programs on the net for making an ODS-1 (RSX format) floppy on a PC or for reading a DOS-format floppy on RSX, but to do anything on the RSX side, you may still have the bootstrap problem.) Another alternative would be to download the sources for K11 to a local system, then download them (in ascii) over a serial line to the RSX system, and build from source. This would take a while, there are lots of source files, and it would be error-prone, since there is no error correction on the serial line when doing ASCII downloads without a comm program like Kermit. I think porting K11HEX.MAC to RSX would be the easiest method. Maybe you could get some hints from K11HEX.FTN or K11HEX.B2S. I think both of these work on RSX, so they might help with the file i/o. The actual HEX-to-binary conversion in K11HEX.MAC (the main loop) should be O/S independent. On the last round of Kermit-11 improvements, Billy Yodelman implemented a lot of new stuff for RT11, and I ported most of it to RSTS/E before my PDP-11 broke, but we never found an RSX-11 person to work on that end of things. -- John Santos Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539 30-May-2001 20:45:06-GMT,2110;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from bass.opus1.com (Bass.Opus1.COM [192.245.12.9]) by menyapa.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA05117; Wed, 30 May 2001 16:44:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Opus1.COM by Opus1.COM (PMDF V5.2-33 #9830) id <01K46CAVVQR49AN6FQ@Opus1.COM>; Wed, 30 May 2001 13:44:36 MST Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 13:09:13 -0700 (MST) From: billy@MIX.COM Subject: Re: yet another kermit bootstrapping question In-reply-to: "Your message dated Wed, 30 May 2001 16:00:44 -0400 (EDT)" Sender: Billy@MIX.COM To: X-ray photoelectron spectroscopy Cc: Frank da Cruz , Billy Youdelman , John Santos , Johnny Billquist , Tim Shoppa , Terry Kennedy , Kermit Support Message-id: <01K46DRAIJ789AN6FQ@Opus1.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Hi - > ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/b/ > -rw-rw-r-- 1 root kermit 2735 Jun 13 1989 k11hex.b2s This may be useful if BASIC+2 is available on the PDP-11. > -rw-rw-r-- 1 root kermit 3827 Jun 13 1989 k11hex.ftn I'm using this, the Fortran version, but I don't have RSX. It does both decoding and encoding and works fine. > -rw-rw-r-- 1 root kermit 4042 Jun 13 1989 k11hex.mac Unfortunately this one is for RT-11 only.. Then, these program images are (see k11ins.doc for more details and k11fil.doc for a complete list of all Kermit-11 files) - Kermit-11 for IAS 3.1 (similar to RSX but not the same..) -rw-rw-r-- 1 root kermit 199296 Aug 16 1988 k11i31.hex Kermit-11 with RMS libraries on disk overlays -rw-rw-r-- 1 root kermit 441216 Jun 13 1989 k11nrs.hex Kermit-11 for P/OS (RSX on PRO-hardware) -rw-rw-r-- 1 root kermit 270720 Jun 13 1989 k11pos.hex Kermit-11 for RSX -rw-rw-r-- 1 root kermit 361728 Jun 13 1989 k11rsx.hex Billy Y.. Maintainer of the RT-11 Kermit 26-Jun-2001 15:12:16-GMT,1452;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from watsun.cc.columbia.edu (watsun.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.39.2]) by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA20749 for ; Tue, 26 Jun 2001 11:11:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from fdc@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA02493; Tue, 26 Jun 2001 11:11:31 -0400 (EDT) Sender: Frank da Cruz Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 11:11:31 EDT From: Kermit Software Support To: HguhS@aol.com Subject: Re: [Heather Watson] RSX-11M V02 In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 26 Jun 2001 11:04:01 EDT Cc: kermit-support@columbia.edu, Billy Youdelman , John Santos , Johnny Billquist , Tim Shoppa , Terry Kennedy Reply-To: kermit-support@columbia.edu Message-ID: > We have transferred the Kermit source code to our PDP11 and tried to > assemble it but it wouldn't work. Our OS is RSX-11M Version 2. Do you have > Kermit source code that is compatible with this OS? Any help would be > appreciated. > > Please put my name in the subject line when replying. Thank you. > I'm sorry, but nobody ever wrote Kermit software for any RSX-11/M release prior to 4.1. Unfortunately, Kermit-11 requires features of the later RSX releases. - Frank 15-Jul-2001 5:19:53-GMT,1548;000000000011 Return-Path: Received: from sequoia.e-farm.com (sequoia.e-farm.com [208.201.236.98]) by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA18558 for ; Sun, 15 Jul 2001 01:19:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from e-farm.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sequoia.e-farm.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id f6F5JsD11711 for ; Sat, 14 Jul 2001 22:19:54 -0700 (PDT) Sender: jerry@sequoia.e-farm.com Message-ID: <3B5127FA.432ABFFB@e-farm.com> Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 22:19:54 -0700 From: Jerry Hudgins Reply-To: Jerry Hudgins Organization: Western Digital Design, Marin County, California X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; OSF1 V4.0 alpha) X-Accept-Language: en-US, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Frank da Cruz Subject: Re: Kermit for VxWorks References: <9ikjrq$asm@watsun.cc.columbia.edu> <3B506CAD.D85AC443@covad.net> <9iprs5$49g$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Frank da Cruz wrote: > > Yes, at least one other person is working this. If anybody else is > working on it too, please get in touch with me so I can coordinate. Frank, if nothing comes of these other efforts, let me know and I'll do the port for you. Happy to give something back if I can - I've gotten a lot of use out of Kermit over the years. (In fact, I think I contributed the last RSX Kermit-11 patch ten or twelve years ago, when I was at GE.) -jch (WRS Consulting Engineer) 15-Jul-2001 17:22:16-GMT,1592;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from watsun.cc.columbia.edu (watsun.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.39.2]) by menyapa.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA13399 for ; Sun, 15 Jul 2001 13:22:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from fdc@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA07859; Sun, 15 Jul 2001 13:21:55 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 13:21:54 EDT From: Frank da Cruz To: Jerry Hudgins Subject: Re: Kermit for VxWorks In-Reply-To: Your message of Sat, 14 Jul 2001 22:19:54 -0700 Message-ID: [VxWorks...] > Frank, if nothing comes of these other efforts, let me know and I'll > do the port for you. > Thanks, I'll do that. Some of the other people *seem* to be making progress, so we'll see. > Happy to give something back if I can - I've > gotten a lot of use out of Kermit over the years. (In fact, I think I > contributed the last RSX Kermit-11 patch ten or twelve years ago, when > I was at GE.) > Yes indeed: $ grep -i hudgins k11* k11m41.mac: .ident /5.0.05/ ; Jerry Hudgins (see below) k11m41.mac:; 03-Feb-89 Jerry Hudgins 5.0.05 k11mco.mac:; 07-Feb-89 00:00:00 Jerry Hudgins Unfortunately, that was the last time anybody touched it. The RT-11 and RSTS versions split off after that and have received several important updates. But believe it or not, quite a few people still use Kermit-11, even on RSX. (Now it looks as if the PDP-11 has outlived not only the VAX but also the Alpha.) Thanks again. - Frank 16-Jul-2001 1:55:40-GMT,1286;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from sequoia.e-farm.com (sequoia.e-farm.com [208.201.236.98]) by kachifo.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA22868 for ; Sun, 15 Jul 2001 21:55:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from jerry@localhost) by sequoia.e-farm.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) id f6G1t6J19303 for fdc@columbia.edu; Sun, 15 Jul 2001 18:55:06 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jerry Hudgins" Message-Id: <010715185505.ZM19307@sequoia.e-farm.com> Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 18:55:05 -0700 In-Reply-To: Frank da Cruz "Re: Kermit for VxWorks" (Jul 15, 1:21pm) References: Reply-To: Jerry Hudgins Organization: Western Digital Design, Marin County, California X-Mailer: Z-Mail (5.0.1 04Feb2000) To: Frank da Cruz Subject: Re: Kermit for VxWorks MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Jul 15, 1:21pm, Frank da Cruz wrote: > > But believe it or not, quite a few people still use Kermit-11, even on > RSX. (Now it looks as if the PDP-11 has outlived not only the VAX but > also the Alpha.) Amazing, isn't it? Who would have thought such a thing? (I confess that I still miss working in MACRO-11.) -jch 26-Jul-2001 19:58:52-GMT,4262;000000000401 Return-Path: Received: from copland.udel.edu (copland.udel.edu [128.175.13.92]) by menyapa.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA29944 for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 15:58:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Carbide ([128.175.119.84]) by copland.udel.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA12923 for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 15:58:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <004c01c1160d$04fa8f40$5477af80@udel.edu> From: "roger" To: Subject: Kermit for PDP 11 Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 15:56:11 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0049_01C115EB.7DAEF380" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0049_01C115EB.7DAEF380 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I'm using a DEC Micro PDP 11 to acquire data from my instruments. = Unfortunately that is the only method we have available to us. The = problem is that we need to get the data off the DEC and onto a PC for = processing, etc. I was told that this may be possible using Kermit. = While getting Kermit onto my PC is trivial, getting it onto the DEC has = turned out to be quite a challenge. The DEC is a stand alone machine = with no connections to the internet and the only way I can think of = getting it onto the computer is to get a compatible version of Kermit = onto a TK 50 tape or a 5.25 floppy. My DEC runs on the Micro/RSX = operating system (not VMS) and this apparently complicates things even = more. If you could provide me with any assistance/pointers at all I'd = greatly appreciate it. regards, Roger Hartmann Lab: (302)831-2087 University of Delaware Fax: (302)831-4545 Materials Science & Engineering 301 Spencer Lab Newark DE, 19716 ------=_NextPart_000_0049_01C115EB.7DAEF380 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,
 
I'm using a DEC Micro PDP 11 to acquire = data from=20 my instruments.  Unfortunately that is the only method we have = available to=20 us.  The problem is that we need to get the data off the DEC and = onto a PC=20 for processing, etc.  I was told that this may be possible using=20 Kermit.  While getting Kermit onto my PC is trivial, getting it = onto the=20 DEC has turned out to be quite a challenge.  The DEC is a stand = alone=20 machine with no connections to the internet and the only way I can think = of=20 getting it onto the computer is to get a compatible version of Kermit = onto a TK=20 50 tape or a 5.25 floppy.  My DEC runs on the Micro/RSX operating = system=20 (not VMS) and this apparently complicates things even more.  If you = could=20 provide me with any assistance/pointers at all I'd greatly appreciate=20 it.
 
regards,
 
Roger=20 Hartmann           = ;            =          =20 Lab: (302)831-2087
University of=20 Delaware           = ;            =  =20 Fax: (302)831-4545
Materials Science & Engineering
301 Spencer = Lab
Newark DE, 19716
------=_NextPart_000_0049_01C115EB.7DAEF380-- 27-Jul-2001 20:22:33-GMT,2023;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from watsun.cc.columbia.edu (watsun.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.39.2]) by menyapa.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04236 for ; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 16:22:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from fdc@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA22410; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 16:22:27 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 16:22:27 EDT From: Frank da Cruz To: "roger" Subject: [Terry Kennedy : Re: ["roger" : Kermit for PDP 11]] Message-ID: I sent your query to a group of PDP-11 experts. Here's the first reply: Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 16:13:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Terry Kennedy Subject: Re: ["roger" : Kermit for PDP 11] In-reply-to: "Your message dated Fri, 27 Jul 2001 16:12:20 -0400 (EDT)" To: Frank da Cruz Cc: Billy Youdelman , John Santos , Johnny Billquist , Tim Shoppa > Can anybody help this guy? Of course it's RSX, not RT or RSTS... > Why does everybody want the one that hasn't been updated in 100 > years... I think John Wilson's PUTR would help - it can transfer files from a PC to a RX50-compatible diskette (which the Pro has). It can even format RX50's. It can read (but not write) Files-11 format, so the user could just put his test results on floppies and move them to a PC, where he could use a modern Kermit to get them wherever he needs them (if not on the PC). Or he could use PUTR to put the old RSX Kermit onto RX50's in RT-11 format (I'm pretty sure MicroRSX has the EXCHANGE utility to read RT-11 format floppies) and install it on the Pro that way. http://www.dbit.com/pub/putr/ Terry Kennedy http://www.tmk.com terry@tmk.com New York, NY USA 29-Oct-2001 17:02:42-GMT,2351;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from cello.Opus1.COM (Cello.Opus1.COM [192.245.12.7]) by kachifo.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA18476 for ; Mon, 29 Oct 2001 12:01:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from Opus1.COM by Opus1.COM (PMDF V5.2-33 #9830) id <01KA2HK9OM689A58VW@Opus1.COM> for kermit@columbia.edu; Mon, 29 Oct 2001 10:01:43 MST Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 09:43:50 -0700 (MST) From: billy@MIX.COM Subject: Re: Kermit and PDP-11 In-reply-to: "Your message dated Mon, 29 Oct 2001 11:31:13 -0500" Sender: Billy@MIX.COM To: Avi Franklin Cc: kermit@columbia.edu, Billy Youdelman , Tim Shoppa Message-id: <01KA2IAFPIRO9A58VW@Opus1.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi - > I desperately need to copy a 6mg file that is created on the PDP > to the PC so that I can run a medical research program on the file. > I tried your approach by copying the krthex.mac to the PDP via the > console using PIP's *KRTHEX.MAC=TT: However I don't have macro on > the PDP (it gives me an error SY:missing) Does the PDP-11 have floppy disk drives on it? If it does what size are they - 8 inch or 5.25 inch? > In addition, when I tried to copy the hex files I kept getting stack > overflow even though I used 30 milliseconds between each byte. I'd suggest trying more delay between bytes here, except without the Macro assembler there remains the problem of how to built the HEX file decoder program. > Is there a way to copy the .sav files in the same manner? i.e is there > a way to copy the binary .sav to the PDP via the TT: ? Unfortunately the device handler (driver) on the PDP-11 is 7-bits only, at least as distributed by DEC. There is another possibility if you have a program named VTCOM on the PDP-11 and another system running a program named TRANSFER or TRANSF such as another more accessable PDP-11 or a VMS host - you could then use this to copy the file, as well as to get Kermit on to the PDP-11. But in this case it seems like getting Kermit on a floppy disk would be the best way to go, if you have floppies on the PDP-11. Please let me know if you do and what size they are... Billy Youdelman Maintainer of Kermit for RT-11/TSX-Plus billy@MIX.COM 26-Nov-2001 18:40:33-GMT,3252;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from watsun.cc.columbia.edu (watsun.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.39.2]) by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25122 for ; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 10:38:34 -0500 (EST) Received: (from fdc@localhost) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA29742 for fdc; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 10:38:04 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 10:38:04 -0500 (EST) From: Frank da Cruz Message-Id: <200111251538.KAA29742@watsun.cc.columbia.edu> To: fdc@columbia.edu Path: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu!panix!newsfeed.mathworks.com!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!nf3.bellglobal.com!sjcppf01!e420r-sjo4.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!sjcpnn01.usenetserver.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Message-ID: <3C003D5C.E289F9A1@srv.net> From: Kevin Handy X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.sys.pdp11,alt.sys.pdp8 Subject: Re: SIMH V2.8 pre-release References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 38 X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 19:36:49 EST Organization: WebUseNet Corp. http://corp.webusenet.com - ReInventing the UseNet Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 17:37:48 -0700 Xref: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu alt.sys.pdp10:18923 alt.sys.pdp11:10608 alt.sys.pdp8:9040 Bob Supnik wrote: > > More debugging done, so updated today, with the following goodies: > > 1. PDP-10 - 1-proceed implemented in ITS mode > 2. PDP-11/VAX - RQDX3 debugged through most operations in > non-interrupt mode > 3. VAX - I/O page linkages corrected > > The VAX simulator will now respond correct to boot ROM commands like > > >>> sho dev How do you get it to this point? I've compiled it on a Linux system, and whatever I try just ends up halting at 0000000? Do you have an example setup file to pass to the emulator? Also, vax_ts.c uses a symbol cq_map which isn't defined anywhere. Compiled using pdp11_ts.c instead and it compiles without errors. > and correctly show all the units on the RQDX3, as well as the RLV12. > > Next steps are to finish the RQDX3 test program, debug it with a > PDP-11 operating system (probably RSTS/E), and then start to bring up > VMS. I will also be changing how the ROM and NVR work - make them > memories rather than files. Tried installing RSTS 10.1 on RQ0 (DU0) , and had no problems at all. Selected everything to install, but didn't try real hard to stress it. I did make it build the SIL's, BASIC+ (for 4word math instead of 2word + string math + matrix ops + debug), and installed everything for BP2. Everything seems to run. Kermit-11 (k11) will send files out of the emulator, but receiving anything causes k11 to crash, and generate a dump file (doesn't crash simh, just k11 running under RSTS under simh). Don't know what the error message is, because when it is in transmit mode kermit hides everything from you. 19-Nov-2001 21:00:16-GMT,2501;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from mailhost.cs.uofs.edu (mailhost.cs.uofs.edu [134.198.169.1]) by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA18213 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 16:00:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from server2.cs.scranton.edu (server2.cs.uofs.edu [134.198.169.3]) by mailhost.cs.uofs.edu (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id PAA57144 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 15:59:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (bill@localhost) by server2.cs.scranton.edu (8.11.3/8.8.6) with ESMTP id fAJKxm900519 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 15:59:48 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: server2.cs.scranton.edu: bill owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 15:59:48 -0500 (EST) From: Bill Gunshannon X-X-Sender: To: Frank da Cruz Subject: Re: Vaxes? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20011119155550.K358-100000@server2.cs.scranton.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 19 Nov 2001, Frank da Cruz wrote: > > I thought you could use a laugh. I copied the ckermit stuff over to > > one of my Ultrix-11 systems. I had little hope, but I I figured with > > the overlay linker, anything might be possible. :-) > > > It doesn't figure out the overlays itself does it? I don't think so. I've never used it. Most of my previous PDP stuff was Fortran, COBOL and Macro. Mostly under RT-11 although some RSTS. > I don't suppose it's on the Internet so I could telnet to it? Sure. circle.cs.uofs.edu Userid: fdc Password: fdc I copied your dotfiles from one of your vax accounts here. > > Anyway, Ultrix-11, if it can be done at all, would need to be done like > 2.xBSD: it would need its own makefile. Probably with overlays spelled > out: > > ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/f/ckubs2.mak Somehow, I think it is too ambitious a project with very little to be gained. Afterall, we have GKermit!! :-) > > > Sadly, no Ultrix-32 V3.0. But, maybe I can cobble something together > > over the holiday. > > > "cobble" sounds like "gobble"... Ah yes, but my holiday starts tonite at 9:00PM. After that, I'm off til next week!! Have fun. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include 30-Jan-2003 12:43:45-GMT,3068;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from mta01.btfusion.com (mta01.btfusion.com [62.172.195.11]) by dewberry.cc.columbia.edu (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h0UHhcH9015391 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 12:43:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from [213.123.231.18] (helo=sbs1.CSS.headoffice) by mta01.btfusion.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18eIiw-0004Z9-00 for kermit-support@columbia.edu; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 17:43:38 +0000 Subject: RE: Retry Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 17:43:59 -0000 Message-ID: <7861F63ADE8C9A48A2C7139E1BFDC6FC0150A4@sbs1.css.headoffice> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Retry content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.4417.0 Thread-Index: AcLIgzP7JMwOSA++RR+3mvQac+suNQAA9S5Q From: "Mark Finigan" To: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by dewberry.cc.columbia.edu id h0UHhcH9015391 Thank you once again. U are agreat help Ta Regards Mark -----Original Message----- From: Kermit Software Support [mailto:kermit-support@columbia.edu] Sent: 30 January 2003 17:02 To: Mark Finigan Cc: kermit-support@columbia.edu; Billy Youdelman; John Santos; Johnny Billquist; Tim Shoppa; Terry Kennedy Subject: RE: Retry > I use the Robust command manually. > We dont have any manuals for Kermit-11 > would it be possible to supply or send in PDF? > It's on our website: http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/pdp11.html > I dont seem to be able to turn XON/XOFF on or > off on Kermit-11 or see what the Parity setting is > The baud rate is 9600 hard wired on the PDP > I dint think I can slow the speed down from the PC. > If you can't change the speed on the -11, then of course you should not change it on the PC. > Would using the "fast" and or the "receive" > command instead of the "server" command on Kermit-11 > help ??? > The "fast" command definitely will NOT help. "server" versus "receive" won't make a difference. Keep using "robust". If you have trouble with "robust" transfers, it means that your Windows PC is sending characters faster than your DOS PC was, even at the same baud rate. In other words, when the PC was sending Kermit packets, there were longer pauses ("stop bits") between each character. If you can't set up flow control on the connection, and you can't reduce the speed, there are a few other things you might try in Kermit 95: SET SEND PACKET-LENGTH 40 Makes Kermit's packets even short. Experiment with different values (60, 40, 30, ...) SET SEND PAUSE 500 Tells K95 to pause for 500 milliseconds after sending each packet. Might give RSX more time to digest it. Experiment with different values. Also be sure to tell Kermit 95 to: SET ATTRIBUTES OFF This is because of a bug in the old version of Kermit-11 that you have (unfortunately no newer version of Kermit-11 was ever issued for RSX). - Frank 5-Aug-2003 8:45:59-GMT,11400;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from smtp3.vsnl.net (smtp3.vsnl.net [203.200.235.233]) by dewberry.cc.columbia.edu (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h75DjuH7002047 for ; Tue, 5 Aug 2003 09:45:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from service ([172.16.28.233]) by smtp3.vsnl.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003)) with SMTP id <0HJ5008MZFK4M8@smtp3.vsnl.net> for kermit@columbia.edu; Tue, 05 Aug 2003 19:15:50 +0530 (IST) Received: from ([219.65.136.153]) by smtp3.vsnl.net (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall Unix); Tue, 05 Aug 2003 19:15:49 +0530 (IST) Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 19:19:52 +0530 From: dvsbng Subject: Reg: Transfer of Data from PDP-11 to IBM-PC through Kermit To: kermit@columbia.edu Cc: suresh_gamidi@yahoo.com Message-id: <004a01c35b58$8be9a260$998841db@service> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_lpg6FYIqYkVAh3kMRBT3zA)" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 3.5 (***) DEAR_SOMETHING HTML_30_40 HTML_FONT_COLOR_BLUE HTML_FONT_COLOR_RED HTML_MESSAGE X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_lpg6FYIqYkVAh3kMRBT3zA) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Dear Sir, I like to introduce myself, G.Suresh Kumar. Working as Service Engineer in INDIA. I am working with PDP11 system which was shipped along with the GenRad In-Circuit Tester, USA. Model:GR2276XP. The System is not having Kermit S/w on the Winchester Drive. This ICT has One Background Terminal(VT100) and another Foreground Terminal. I was trying to tansfer the DATA/File from PDP11/GR2276 through VT100 terminal to IBM PC. The procedure i followed was according to the your Document "KRTHEX.MAC" --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bootstrapping How to get Kermit-11 onto your PDP-11 if it doesn't already have Kermit --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- For Your Information I have copied the Point No:3, which is as below. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3. Run PIP on the PDP-11, then give it a file name to create and tell ; it to take its input from the terminal. Example: ; ; .PIP ; *KRT.HEX=TT: ! or file name of your choice ; ^ ! PIP prints a ^ when it's ready for input --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Following are the procedure followed. On IBM-PC side: 1) A Null modem cable is connected between PC COM port and VT100 terminal or Background terminal. 2) I configured the HyperTerminal to 9600 speed, parity bit - nil, stop bit - 1, flow control - X-on/X-off. 3) SET the delay in ASCII setup to - Line delay 10ms and Character Delay 10ms. Not successful. Again Tried the same with 100ms. 5) I am able to see the characters sending one by one clearly on IBM PC monitor, but unable to trace out on PDP11/2276. On the PDP11/2276 side: 6) The VT100 terminal is connected to PC COM. port. 7) Logged on to the User account on to FOREGROUND terminal. 7a) Entered into MCR (Monitor Console Routine) mode. 8) Entered into PIP task. 9) The following command is entered PIP>KRT.HEX=TT1: Description: PIP> indicates PIP(Peripheral Interface Program) task, KRT.HEX is the destination file name where the Data to be stored in and TT1 is input terminal i.e., VT100. 10) Pressing Return key, the PDP11/2276 monitor should get ( ^ ) Circumflex or up-arrow at the prompt,Which indicates the PDP11/2276 system is ready for input of data from the specified terminal. [Problem] At this point I am unable to get the (^ ) Circumflex on the PDP11/2276 Foreground Monitor 11) At this instant I am sending the ASCII file from the PC COM port, which I am able to visualize the characters on PC monitor. PDP11/2276 - on the Winchester Drive, I am able to see the specified input file i.e., KRT.HEX in the default UIC or location of Winchester Drive. After cross checking for the contents, the file size is Zero. What I understood from the PIP>KRT.HEX=TT1: is that when ever I give this command, it (PDP11/2276) is creating Destination file name on the default UIC, here it is KRT.HEX. Try to throw some light on where i am doing wrong? Please suggest me to proceed further. Awaiting for your reply. Thanks and regards, Suresh --Boundary_(ID_lpg6FYIqYkVAh3kMRBT3zA) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Dear Sir,
 
I like to introduce myself, G.Suresh Kumar. Working as Service Engineer in INDIA.
 
I am working with PDP11 system which was shipped along with the GenRad In-Circuit Tester, USA. Model:GR2276XP. The System is not having Kermit S/w on the Winchester Drive.
 
This ICT has One Background Terminal(VT100) and another Foreground Terminal. I was trying to tansfer the DATA/File from PDP11/GR2276 through VT100 terminal to IBM PC.
 
The procedure i followed was according to the your Document "KRTHEX.MAC"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bootstrapping
How to get Kermit-11 onto your PDP-11 if it doesn't already have Kermit
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For Your Information I have copied the Point No:3, which is as below.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3. Run PIP on the PDP-11, then give it a file name to create and tell
; it to take its input from the terminal. Example:
;
; .PIP
; *KRT.HEX=TT: ! or file name of your choice
; ^ ! PIP prints a ^ when it's ready for input
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Following are the procedure followed.
 
On IBM-PC side:
1) A Null modem cable is connected between PC COM port and VT100 terminal or Background terminal.
2) I configured the HyperTerminal to 9600 speed, parity bit - nil, stop bit - 1, flow control - X-on/X-off.
3) SET the delay in ASCII setup to - Line delay 10ms and Character Delay 10ms. Not successful. Again Tried the same with 100ms.
5) I am able to see the characters sending one by one clearly on IBM PC monitor, but unable to trace out on PDP11/2276.
 
On the PDP11/2276 side:
6) The VT100 terminal is connected to PC COM. port.
7) Logged on to the User account on to FOREGROUND terminal.
7a) Entered into MCR (Monitor Console Routine) mode.
8) Entered into PIP task.
9) The following command is entered
PIP>KRT.HEX=TT1:
Description:
PIP> indicates PIP(Peripheral Interface Program) task, KRT.HEX is the
destination file name where the Data to be stored in and TT1 is input
terminal i.e., VT100.
10) Pressing Return key, the PDP11/2276 monitor should get ( ^ ) Circumflex or
up-arrow at the prompt,Which indicates the PDP11/2276 system is ready for input of data from the
specified terminal.
 
[Problem]
At this point I am unable to get the (^ ) Circumflex on the PDP11/2276 Foreground Monitor
 
11) At this instant I am sending the ASCII file from the PC COM port, which I am able to visualize the characters on PC monitor. PDP11/2276 – on the Winchester Drive, I am able to see the specified input file i.e., KRT.HEX in the default UIC or location of Winchester Drive. After cross checking for the contents, the file size is Zero.
 
What I understood from the PIP>KRT.HEX=TT1: is that when ever I give this
command, it (PDP11/2276) is creating Destination file name on the default UIC,
here it is KRT.HEX.
 
Try to throw some light on where i am doing wrong?
 
Please suggest me to proceed further.
 
Awaiting for your reply.
 
Thanks and regards,
 
Suresh
 
--Boundary_(ID_lpg6FYIqYkVAh3kMRBT3zA)-- 6-Aug-2003 0:14:31-GMT,2442;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from smtp3.vsnl.net (smtp3.vsnl.net [203.200.235.233]) by marionberry.cc.columbia.edu (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h765ETYP022417 for ; Wed, 6 Aug 2003 01:14:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from service ([172.16.28.233]) by smtp3.vsnl.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003)) with SMTP id <0HJ600DS5MJU36@smtp3.vsnl.net> for kermit@columbia.edu; Wed, 06 Aug 2003 10:44:22 +0530 (IST) Received: from ([219.65.130.89]) by smtp3.vsnl.net (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall Unix); Wed, 06 Aug 2003 10:44:22 +0530 (IST) Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 10:47:17 +0530 From: dvsbng Subject: Re: Reg: Transfer of Data from PDP-11 to IBM-PC through Kermit To: billy@MIX.COM Cc: kermit@columbia.edu, suresh_gamidi@yahoo.com Message-id: <005001c35bda$45bfc620$598241db@service> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <01KZ3EBTBCMKA4WZ6W@Opus1.COM> X-Spam-Score: 0 () X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Dear Billy, Thank you very much for the prompt reply. I forgot to mention the Operating System and the Version No. Following are the details of the Machine(GR2276xp) / System(PDP11). Make: GenRad, USA Model: GR2276XP Equipment Description: In-Circuit Tester with PDP11 system. Operating System: RSX11M Plus Version No: V 3.0 If you require any more details please let me know. Awaiting for your reply. Regards, Suresh ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "dvsbng" Cc: ; Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 7:38 PM Subject: Re: Reg: Transfer of Data from PDP-11 to IBM-PC through Kermit > Greetings - > > > I am working with PDP11 system which was shipped along with the GenRad > > In-Circuit Tester, USA. Model:GR2276XP. The System is not having Kermit > > S/w on the Winchester Drive. > > Your letter arrived just as I am leaving for a job that will have me > occupied all of today. I will write again with some suggestions as > soon as I can, which may take as long as until tomorrow. > > Please accept my appologies for that, I'm not usually this busy.. > > Regards, > > Billy Youdelman > billy@MIX.COM > Maintainer of the RT-11 Kermit > > 7-Aug-2003 15:28:16-GMT,2338;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from Viola.Opus1.COM (Viola.Opus1.COM [192.245.12.8]) by dewberry.cc.columbia.edu (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h77KSFxu011117 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 2003 16:28:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Opus1.COM by Opus1.COM (PMDF V6.2 #9830) id <01KZ6J7BNUI89WS2QZ@Opus1.COM> for kermit@columbia.edu; Thu, 07 Aug 2003 13:28:14 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 13:05:24 -0700 (MST) From: billy@MIX.COM Subject: Re: Reg: Transfer of Data from PDP-11 to IBM-PC through Kermit In-reply-to: "Your message dated Wed, 06 Aug 2003 10:47:17 +0530" <005001c35bda$45bfc620$598241db@service> Sender: Billy@MIX.COM To: dvsbng Cc: billy@MIX.COM, kermit@columbia.edu, suresh_gamidi@yahoo.com Message-id: <01KZ6K1XDPO89WS2QZ@Opus1.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 References: <01KZ3EBTBCMKA4WZ6W@Opus1.COM> X-Spam-Score: 1 (*) NO_REAL_NAME X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Hi - > Following are the details of the Machine(GR2276xp) / System(PDP11). > Make: GenRad, USA > Model: GR2276XP > Equipment Description: In-Circuit Tester with PDP11 system. > Operating System: RSX11M Plus > Version No: V 3.0 Unfortunately I'm only familiar with DEC's RT-11 (a somewhat different PDP-11 operating system). But a few months ago another gentleman named Terry Kennedy had a good suggestion for RSX users trying to accomplish the same thing you need to do. I didn't save a copy of that note but I believe the support staff at Columbia University would have a copy of it. So - would you at Columbia please locate that and send us a copy? Or if that's not possible I'll ask Terry directly. >From your previous letter - > [Problem] > At this point I am unable to get the (^ ) Circumflex on the PDP11/2276 > Foreground Monitor I believe PIP under RSX behaves differently than it does under RT-11 hence this unexpected behavior. But as well RSX requires a different executable program image, the RT-11 version will not run under RSX. Again please accept my appologies for the delay in answering your email - RT-11 is widely used in videotape editing systems and here in the USA this is the week production for most all the year's new programs begins, so I've been unusually buried with work. Billy Youdelman billy@MIX.COM Mailtainer of the RT-11 Kermit 8-Aug-2003 2:53:06-GMT,8561;000000000005 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.vsnl.net (smtp1.vsnl.net [203.200.235.231]) by marionberry.cc.columbia.edu (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h787r1Jl001800 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 2003 03:53:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from service ([127.0.0.1]) by smtp1.vsnl.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003)) with SMTP id <0HJA00BS9J4IV7@smtp1.vsnl.net> for kermit@columbia.edu; Fri, 08 Aug 2003 13:20:47 +0530 (IST) Received: from ([219.65.133.198]) by smtp1.vsnl.net (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall Unix); Fri, 08 Aug 2003 13:20:47 +0530 (IST) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 13:25:01 +0530 From: dvsbng Subject: Re: Reg: Transfer of Data from PDP-11 to IBM-PC through Kermit To: billy@MIX.COM Cc: Chavan , "T.S.Sanjay" , kermit@columbia.edu Message-id: <00b301c35d82$7fbc89e0$f78541db@service> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_gYQlC2o55CYzppHQ5eDHDw)" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <01KZ3EBTBCMKA4WZ6W@Opus1.COM> <01KZ6K1XDPO89WS2QZ@Opus1.COM> X-Spam-Score: 0.9 () HTML_30_40 HTML_FONT_COLOR_BLUE HTML_MESSAGE MAILTO_LINK X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_gYQlC2o55CYzppHQ5eDHDw) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi Billy, Thank you very much for the reply. I request you to help me to get the Notes prepared by Terry Kennedy and if possible please pass on his e-mail ID. Once again thank you very much for pointing the Fault where i am doing wrong(Reg: following of procedure for Data Transfer). Whatever you said, i agree with your comment. Can you pass on the concerned person at Columbia university, so that i can request him for the notes prepared by Terry Kennedy. Awaiting for your reply. Thanks in advance. Regards, Suresh ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "dvsbng" Cc: ; ; Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 1:35 AM Subject: Re: Reg: Transfer of Data from PDP-11 to IBM-PC through Kermit > Hi - > > > Following are the details of the Machine(GR2276xp) / System(PDP11). > > > Make: GenRad, USA > > Model: GR2276XP > > Equipment Description: In-Circuit Tester with PDP11 system. > > Operating System: RSX11M Plus > > Version No: V 3.0 > > Unfortunately I'm only familiar with DEC's RT-11 (a somewhat > different PDP-11 operating system). But a few months ago > another gentleman named Terry Kennedy had a good suggestion > for RSX users trying to accomplish the same thing you need > to do. I didn't save a copy of that note but I believe the > support staff at Columbia University would have a copy of it. > > So - would you at Columbia please locate that and send us a > copy? Or if that's not possible I'll ask Terry directly. > > From your previous letter - > > > [Problem] > > At this point I am unable to get the (^ ) Circumflex on the PDP11/2276 > > Foreground Monitor > > I believe PIP under RSX behaves differently than it does under > RT-11 hence this unexpected behavior. But as well RSX requires > a different executable program image, the RT-11 version will not > run under RSX. > > Again please accept my appologies for the delay in answering your > email - RT-11 is widely used in videotape editing systems and here > in the USA this is the week production for most all the year's new > programs begins, so I've been unusually buried with work. > > Billy Youdelman > billy@MIX.COM > Mailtainer of the RT-11 Kermit > > --Boundary_(ID_gYQlC2o55CYzppHQ5eDHDw) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Hi Billy,
 
Thank you very much for the reply.
 
I request you to help me to get the Notes prepared by Terry Kennedy and if possible please pass on his e-mail ID.
 
Once again thank you very much for pointing the Fault where i am doing wrong(Reg: following of procedure for Data Transfer).  Whatever you said, i agree with your comment.
 
Can you pass on the concerned person at Columbia university, so that i can request him for the notes prepared by Terry Kennedy.
 
Awaiting for your reply.
 
Thanks in advance.
 
Regards,
Suresh
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
To: "dvsbng" <dvsbng@vsnl.com>
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 1:35 AM
Subject: Re: Reg: Transfer of Data from PDP-11 to IBM-PC through Kermit

> Hi -
>
> > Following are the details of the Machine(GR2276xp) / System(PDP11).
>
> > Make: GenRad, USA
> > Model: GR2276XP
> > Equipment Description: In-Circuit Tester with PDP11 system.
> > Operating System: RSX11M Plus
> > Version No: V 3.0
>
> Unfortunately I'm only familiar with DEC's RT-11 (a somewhat
> different PDP-11 operating system).  But a few months ago
> another gentleman named Terry Kennedy had a good suggestion
> for RSX users trying to accomplish the same thing you need
> to do.  I didn't save a copy of that note but I believe the
> support staff at Columbia University would have a copy of it.
>
> So - would you at Columbia please locate that and send us a
> copy?  Or if that's not possible I'll ask Terry directly.
>
> From your previous letter -
>
> > [Problem]
> > At this point I am unable to get the (^ ) Circumflex on the PDP11/2276
> > Foreground Monitor
>
> I believe PIP under RSX behaves differently than it does under
> RT-11 hence this unexpected behavior.  But as well RSX requires
> a different executable program image, the RT-11 version will not
> run under RSX.
>
> Again please accept my appologies for the delay in answering your
> email - RT-11 is widely used in videotape editing systems and here
> in the USA this is the week production for most all the year's new
> programs begins, so I've been unusually buried with work.
>
> Billy Youdelman
> billy@MIX.COM
> Mailtainer of the RT-11 Kermit
>
> --Boundary_(ID_gYQlC2o55CYzppHQ5eDHDw)-- 11-Aug-2003 12:43:04-GMT,2719;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from bass.opus1.com (Bass.Opus1.COM [192.245.12.9]) by marionberry.cc.columbia.edu (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h7BHh1Jl029126; Mon, 11 Aug 2003 13:43:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Opus1.COM by Opus1.COM (PMDF V6.2 #9830) id <01KZBZ4XI4XC9VX6QT@Opus1.COM>; Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:42:59 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:34:50 -0700 (MST) From: billy@MIX.COM Subject: Re: Fw: Reg: Transfer of Data from PDP-11 to IBM-PC through Kermit In-reply-to: "A message dated Mon, 11 Aug 2003 09:11:01 -0400 (EDT)" Sender: Billy@MIX.COM To: dvsbng Cc: Frank da Cruz , billy@MIX.COM, Chavan , "T.S.Sanjay" , kermit@columbia.edu Message-id: <01KZBZFGOU4K9VX6QT@Opus1.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: 1 (*) NO_REAL_NAME X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Frank da Cruz wrote - > http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/pdp11.txt Thanks Frank. For convenience I'll append the specific letter to which I was refering.. This of course requires a floppy disk drive on the PDP-11 based instrument. If that's not available and you need help doing a HEX encoded file transfer to it please let me know and I'll look through the Kermit archives to see what is possible there. I'm not an RSX user but I am familiar with the PDP-11 Kermit and can at least speed up that part of the process. Regards, Billy Youdelman billy@MIX.COM Maintainer of the RT-11 Kermit Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 16:13:43 -0400 (EDT) >From: Terry Kennedy Subject: Re: ["roger" : Kermit for PDP 11] In-reply-to: "Your message dated Fri, 27 Jul 2001 16:12:20 -0400 (EDT)" To: Frank da Cruz Cc: Billy Youdelman , John Santos , Johnny Billquist , Tim Shoppa I think John Wilson's PUTR would help - it can transfer files from a PC to a RX50-compatible diskette (which the Pro has). It can even format RX50's. It can read (but not write) Files-11 format, so the user could just put his test results on floppies and move them to a PC, where he could use a modern Kermit to get them wherever he needs them (if not on the PC). Or he could use PUTR to put the old RSX Kermit onto RX50's in RT-11 format (I'm pretty sure MicroRSX has the EXCHANGE utility to read RT-11 format floppies) and install it on the Pro that way. http://www.dbit.com/pub/putr/ Terry Kennedy http://www.tmk.com terry@tmk.com New York, NY USA 18-Feb-2004 17:40:21-GMT,2861;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from sesame.cc.columbia.edu (sesame.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.56]) by tepin.cc.columbia.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i1IHeE2R025020 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2004 12:40:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from sesame.cc.columbia.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sesame.cc.columbia.edu (8.12.11/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i1IHe9BI009514; Wed, 18 Feb 2004 12:40:09 -0500 (EST) Received: (from fdc@localhost) by sesame.cc.columbia.edu (8.12.11/8.12.8/Submit) id i1IHe9C1009513; Wed, 18 Feb 2004 12:40:09 -0500 (EST) Sender: Frank da Cruz Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 12:40:09 EST From: Kermit Software Support To: "Hastings, Philip R." Subject: Re: SOS In-Reply-To: Cc: kermit-support@columbia.edu Reply-To: kermit-support@columbia.edu Message-ID: X-No-Spam-Score: Local X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 > I recently downloaded K95 to see if would successfully help in acquiring a > database file from a PDP/11-44 to my laptop. The PDP is running Kermit-11 > T2.27. Frank Dacruz who was extremely helpful in getting me confident in > Kermit suggested that I e-mail the errors we were getting when attempting > this database download. Any help would be greatly appreciated. > > Ive the error message and the results of the "SHOW ALL" command on the PDP > after a few transfer attempts. > > Kermit 95 2.1.3, 1 Jan 2003, DSGRMS > > Current Directory: C:/Program Files/Kermit 95 2.1/ > Communication Device: com1 > Communication Speed: 1200 > Parity: none > RTT/Timeout: 01 / 03 > RECEIVING: C:\DATABASE.BIN => C:/DATABASE.BIN ... > Last Error: Refused, name > Why is the file arriving with a name like "C:\DATABASE.BIN"? Did you tell Kermit-11 to send it with that name? Try telling it to just "send database.bin". Then Kermit will store the incoming file in either its current directory or (if you have specified a download directory) into your download directory. When a file arrives announcing a full pathname, as in your example, Kermit does not accept it blindly because that could be a major security risk -- overwriting critical system files, etc. So it tries to turn the incoming pathname string into a relative filename UNLESS you have gone out of your way to tell it not to. Beyond that, old versions of PDP-11 Kermit have a bug in their protocol implementation. The usual method for working around the bug is to tell its partner Kermit program (Kermit 95 in this case) to: set attributes off I *think* this bug was fixed in the latest (and probably last) release of Kermit-11 for RSX, which was 3.60: http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/pdp11.html - Frank 24-May-2005 20:59:16-GMT,4722;000000000011 Return-Path: Received: from med22.med.uvm.edu (med22.med.uvm.edu [132.198.65.70]) by tepin.cc.columbia.edu (8.13.0/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4OKxFOQ013164 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 16:59:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from MED05.med.uvm ([132.198.65.39]) by med22.med.uvm.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Tue, 24 May 2005 16:59:09 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: Kermit for PDP-11 on RX50 Diskette for RT-11SJ/XM Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 16:59:09 -0400 Message-ID: <09EB7E23AD8B9A4BADF6B04006F1D2DADB62ED@MED05.med.uvm> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Kermit for PDP-11 on RX50 Diskette for RT-11SJ/XM Thread-Index: AcVgo244wyN5SrRHRWCARPKBSOFHQA== From: "Segal, Alan S." To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 May 2005 20:59:09.0919 (UTC) FILETIME=[6E7786F0:01C560A3] X-Spam-Score: 0 () X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.48 on 128.59.28.169 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by tepin.cc.columbia.edu id j4OKxFOQ013164 To the good folks at the KERMIT Project, I read on your website (http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/pdp11.html) that the Kermit project does not have any PDP-11 computers in house and that you have never been able to make Kermit-11 available on PDP-11 format media. I am hoping to help the Kermit project in this respect, as I can make KRTMIN available to you on a RX50 formatted 5.25" diskette that will boot RT-11 operating systems RT11SJ or RT11XM on a PDP-11. Using a DOS program named PUTR (www.dbit.com/putr, freeware for hobbyists, although the Kermit project might need a license) it is also possible to make copies of these diskettes using any double-sided double density (but not high density) 5.25" diskettes, which are still widely available. Using the PUTR program, these DSDD 5.25" diskettes can be formatted as an RX50/RT11 diskette, which can then be used as a boot floppy on a real PDP-11. The diskette will boot either RT11SJ or RT11XM, and KRTMIN can be run from the RT-11 . prompt. I would like to send you two diskettes (one RT11SJ and one RT11XM) so that you would have some native PDP-11 media that will boot these RT-11 operating systems and include the 3 Kermit-11 files needed to run KRTMIN (KRTMIN.INI, KRTMIN.HLP, and KRTMIN.SAV). I have tested these on two PDP-11 (an 11/23 and an 11/73, and they both work perfectly). Please let me know where I should send the diskettes, and if you require any other information. Below I have included the method for using PUTR to make more RX50 diskettes that will boot RT11SJ or RT11XM and run KRTMIN. Thank you for keeping the Kermit Project going all these years. =========================== Alan Segal, M.D. Associate Professor Department of Medicine (Nephrology) Department of Pharmacology Department of Molecular Physiology & Biophysics ----------------------- PUTR: A PC Interface for the PDP-11 PUTR is a program written by John Wilson (518-271-6824 and wilson@dbit.com) to allow the PC to format, read, and write floppy discs for the PDP-11. In our case, we exclusively use RX50 formatted 5.25" discs with the RT-11 operating system. PUTR.com is a DOS program, so double-clicking will open a DOS window and immediately execute the PUTR.INI file that can be used to set preferences and run common commands. This file should at least contain the line: SET COPY BINARY so that all copy commands will be done in a binary fashion. Our 5.25" floppy drive is the A: drive on the Pentium. To FORMAT a double density (360 kB) 5.25" floppy as RX50 for RT-11: FORMAT A: /RX50 /RT11 Once a diskette is formatted, it needs to be MOUNTed: MOUNT A: /RX50 /RT11 To copy PDP-11 files residing in the PDP-11\RT11 directory on the F: drive of the PC: COPY /binary F:\PDP-11\RT11\*.* A: Now, if you want to make this diskette a boot floppy: BOOT A: Answer the prompts for the monitor (e.g., RT11SJ.SYS or RT11XM.SYS) and the driver (e.g., DU.SYS or DUX.SYS, respectively) To read an (old) RX50 disc containing PDP-11 files and copy them to the PC: First, the volume must be MOUNTed: MOUNT DU0: A: /RT11 Then you can look at the directory the same way you would on the PDP-11: DIR DU0: To COPY files from the diskette to the PDP-11\RT11 directory on the PC: COPY /binary DU0:*.* F:\PDP-11\RT11\*.* Once that is done, you can use the procedure above to format a new PC diskette and copy the files back to the new diskette. ------------------------------- 25-May-2005 14:30:37-GMT,3529;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from sesame.cc.columbia.edu (sesame.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.56]) by brinza.cc.columbia.edu (8.13.0/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4PEUbAK009918 for ; Wed, 25 May 2005 10:30:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sesame.cc.columbia.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sesame.cc.columbia.edu (8.13.0/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4PEUbnP004355; Wed, 25 May 2005 10:30:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from fdc@localhost) by sesame.cc.columbia.edu (8.13.0/8.12.8/Submit) id j4PEUaMX004354; Wed, 25 May 2005 10:30:36 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 25 May 2005 10:30:36 EDT From: Frank da Cruz To: "Segal, Alan S." Subject: Re: Kermit for PDP-11 on RX50 Diskette for RT-11SJ/XM In-Reply-To: <09EB7E23AD8B9A4BADF6B04006F1D2DADB62ED@MED05.med.uvm> Message-ID: X-No-Spam-Score: Local X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.48 on 128.59.29.8 > To the good folks at the KERMIT Project, > > I read on your website (http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/pdp11.html) that > the Kermit project does not have any PDP-11 computers in house and that > you have never been able to make Kermit-11 available on PDP-11 format > media. I am hoping to help the Kermit project in this respect, as I can > make KRTMIN available to you on a RX50 formatted 5.25" diskette that will > boot RT-11 operating systems RT11SJ or RT11XM on a PDP-11. > That would be terrific. > Using a DOS program named PUTR (www.dbit.com/putr, freeware for hobbyists, > although the Kermit project might need a license) it is also possible to > make copies of these diskettes using any double-sided double density (but > not high density) 5.25" diskettes, which are still widely available. Using > the PUTR program, these DSDD 5.25" diskettes can be formatted as an > RX50/RT11 diskette, which can then be used as a boot floppy on a real > PDP-11. The diskette will boot either RT11SJ or RT11XM, and KRTMIN can be > run from the RT-11 . prompt. > That's good to know. The only PC I still have with 5.25" diskettes is a PC/AT; I believe one of them is 360K (DD). I haven't turned it on in a few years! > I would like to send you two diskettes (one RT11SJ and one RT11XM) so that > you would have some native PDP-11 media that will boot these RT-11 > operating systems and include the 3 Kermit-11 files needed to run KRTMIN > (KRTMIN.INI, KRTMIN.HLP, and KRTMIN.SAV). I have tested these on two > PDP-11 (an 11/23 and an 11/73, and they both work perfectly). > > Please let me know where I should send the diskettes, and if you require > any other information. Below I have included the method for using PUTR to > make more RX50 diskettes that will boot RT11SJ or RT11XM and run KRTMIN. > Address below. > Thank you for keeping the Kermit Project going all these years. > Thanks for your generous offer! My first real computing job was in a lab that had PDP-11s. I used them for about 10 years, they were lovable, fun, and useful, compared to today's consumer-oriented products. You probably saw my story here (towards the bottom): http://www.columbia.edu/acis/history/pdp11.html > Alan Segal, M.D. > Associate Professor > Department of Medicine (Nephrology) > Department of Pharmacology > Department of Molecular Physiology & Biophysics Thanks again. - Frank Frank da Cruz The Kermit Project Columbia University 612 West 115th Street New York NY 10025-7799 USA Email: fdc@columbia.edu Voice: +1 212 854-3508 Fax: +1 212 662-6442 http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ 24-May-2005 20:59:16-GMT,4722;000000000011 Return-Path: Received: from med22.med.uvm.edu (med22.med.uvm.edu [132.198.65.70]) by tepin.cc.columbia.edu (8.13.0/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4OKxFOQ013164 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 16:59:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from MED05.med.uvm ([132.198.65.39]) by med22.med.uvm.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Tue, 24 May 2005 16:59:09 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: Kermit for PDP-11 on RX50 Diskette for RT-11SJ/XM Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 16:59:09 -0400 Message-ID: <09EB7E23AD8B9A4BADF6B04006F1D2DADB62ED@MED05.med.uvm> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Kermit for PDP-11 on RX50 Diskette for RT-11SJ/XM Thread-Index: AcVgo244wyN5SrRHRWCARPKBSOFHQA== From: "Segal, Alan S." To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 May 2005 20:59:09.0919 (UTC) FILETIME=[6E7786F0:01C560A3] X-Spam-Score: 0 () X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.48 on 128.59.28.169 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by tepin.cc.columbia.edu id j4OKxFOQ013164 To the good folks at the KERMIT Project, I read on your website (http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/pdp11.html) that the Kermit project does not have any PDP-11 computers in house and that you have never been able to make Kermit-11 available on PDP-11 format media. I am hoping to help the Kermit project in this respect, as I can make KRTMIN available to you on a RX50 formatted 5.25" diskette that will boot RT-11 operating systems RT11SJ or RT11XM on a PDP-11. Using a DOS program named PUTR (www.dbit.com/putr, freeware for hobbyists, although the Kermit project might need a license) it is also possible to make copies of these diskettes using any double-sided double density (but not high density) 5.25" diskettes, which are still widely available. Using the PUTR program, these DSDD 5.25" diskettes can be formatted as an RX50/RT11 diskette, which can then be used as a boot floppy on a real PDP-11. The diskette will boot either RT11SJ or RT11XM, and KRTMIN can be run from the RT-11 . prompt. I would like to send you two diskettes (one RT11SJ and one RT11XM) so that you would have some native PDP-11 media that will boot these RT-11 operating systems and include the 3 Kermit-11 files needed to run KRTMIN (KRTMIN.INI, KRTMIN.HLP, and KRTMIN.SAV). I have tested these on two PDP-11 (an 11/23 and an 11/73, and they both work perfectly). Please let me know where I should send the diskettes, and if you require any other information. Below I have included the method for using PUTR to make more RX50 diskettes that will boot RT11SJ or RT11XM and run KRTMIN. Thank you for keeping the Kermit Project going all these years. =========================== Alan Segal, M.D. Associate Professor Department of Medicine (Nephrology) Department of Pharmacology Department of Molecular Physiology & Biophysics ----------------------- PUTR: A PC Interface for the PDP-11 PUTR is a program written by John Wilson (518-271-6824 and wilson@dbit.com) to allow the PC to format, read, and write floppy discs for the PDP-11. In our case, we exclusively use RX50 formatted 5.25" discs with the RT-11 operating system. PUTR.com is a DOS program, so double-clicking will open a DOS window and immediately execute the PUTR.INI file that can be used to set preferences and run common commands. This file should at least contain the line: SET COPY BINARY so that all copy commands will be done in a binary fashion. Our 5.25" floppy drive is the A: drive on the Pentium. To FORMAT a double density (360 kB) 5.25" floppy as RX50 for RT-11: FORMAT A: /RX50 /RT11 Once a diskette is formatted, it needs to be MOUNTed: MOUNT A: /RX50 /RT11 To copy PDP-11 files residing in the PDP-11\RT11 directory on the F: drive of the PC: COPY /binary F:\PDP-11\RT11\*.* A: Now, if you want to make this diskette a boot floppy: BOOT A: Answer the prompts for the monitor (e.g., RT11SJ.SYS or RT11XM.SYS) and the driver (e.g., DU.SYS or DUX.SYS, respectively) To read an (old) RX50 disc containing PDP-11 files and copy them to the PC: First, the volume must be MOUNTed: MOUNT DU0: A: /RT11 Then you can look at the directory the same way you would on the PDP-11: DIR DU0: To COPY files from the diskette to the PDP-11\RT11 directory on the PC: COPY /binary DU0:*.* F:\PDP-11\RT11\*.* Once that is done, you can use the procedure above to format a new PC diskette and copy the files back to the new diskette. ------------------------------- 25-May-2005 14:30:37-GMT,3529;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from sesame.cc.columbia.edu (sesame.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.56]) by brinza.cc.columbia.edu (8.13.0/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4PEUbAK009918 for ; Wed, 25 May 2005 10:30:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sesame.cc.columbia.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sesame.cc.columbia.edu (8.13.0/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4PEUbnP004355; Wed, 25 May 2005 10:30:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from fdc@localhost) by sesame.cc.columbia.edu (8.13.0/8.12.8/Submit) id j4PEUaMX004354; Wed, 25 May 2005 10:30:36 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 25 May 2005 10:30:36 EDT From: Frank da Cruz To: "Segal, Alan S." Subject: Re: Kermit for PDP-11 on RX50 Diskette for RT-11SJ/XM In-Reply-To: <09EB7E23AD8B9A4BADF6B04006F1D2DADB62ED@MED05.med.uvm> Message-ID: X-No-Spam-Score: Local X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.48 on 128.59.29.8 > To the good folks at the KERMIT Project, > > I read on your website (http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/pdp11.html) that > the Kermit project does not have any PDP-11 computers in house and that > you have never been able to make Kermit-11 available on PDP-11 format > media. I am hoping to help the Kermit project in this respect, as I can > make KRTMIN available to you on a RX50 formatted 5.25" diskette that will > boot RT-11 operating systems RT11SJ or RT11XM on a PDP-11. > That would be terrific. > Using a DOS program named PUTR (www.dbit.com/putr, freeware for hobbyists, > although the Kermit project might need a license) it is also possible to > make copies of these diskettes using any double-sided double density (but > not high density) 5.25" diskettes, which are still widely available. Using > the PUTR program, these DSDD 5.25" diskettes can be formatted as an > RX50/RT11 diskette, which can then be used as a boot floppy on a real > PDP-11. The diskette will boot either RT11SJ or RT11XM, and KRTMIN can be > run from the RT-11 . prompt. > That's good to know. The only PC I still have with 5.25" diskettes is a PC/AT; I believe one of them is 360K (DD). I haven't turned it on in a few years! > I would like to send you two diskettes (one RT11SJ and one RT11XM) so that > you would have some native PDP-11 media that will boot these RT-11 > operating systems and include the 3 Kermit-11 files needed to run KRTMIN > (KRTMIN.INI, KRTMIN.HLP, and KRTMIN.SAV). I have tested these on two > PDP-11 (an 11/23 and an 11/73, and they both work perfectly). > > Please let me know where I should send the diskettes, and if you require > any other information. Below I have included the method for using PUTR to > make more RX50 diskettes that will boot RT11SJ or RT11XM and run KRTMIN. > Address below. > Thank you for keeping the Kermit Project going all these years. > Thanks for your generous offer! My first real computing job was in a lab that had PDP-11s. I used them for about 10 years, they were lovable, fun, and useful, compared to today's consumer-oriented products. You probably saw my story here (towards the bottom): http://www.columbia.edu/acis/history/pdp11.html > Alan Segal, M.D. > Associate Professor > Department of Medicine (Nephrology) > Department of Pharmacology > Department of Molecular Physiology & Biophysics Thanks again. - Frank Frank da Cruz The Kermit Project Columbia University 612 West 115th Street New York NY 10025-7799 USA Email: fdc@columbia.edu Voice: +1 212 854-3508 Fax: +1 212 662-6442 http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ 26-May-2005 1:17:23-GMT,4837;000000000011 Return-Path: Received: from med22.med.uvm.edu (med22.med.uvm.edu [132.198.65.70]) by marionberry.cc.columbia.edu (8.13.0/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4Q1HMMQ017471 for ; Wed, 25 May 2005 21:17:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from MED05.med.uvm ([132.198.65.39]) by med22.med.uvm.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 25 May 2005 21:17:21 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: RE: Kermit for PDP-11 on RX50 Diskette for RT-11SJ/XM Date: Wed, 25 May 2005 21:17:21 -0400 Message-ID: <09EB7E23AD8B9A4BADF6B04006F1D2DADB62FA@MED05.med.uvm> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Kermit for PDP-11 on RX50 Diskette for RT-11SJ/XM Thread-Index: AcVhNlW6kRaAtj9CRvay4fhbcdnI0gAVuZR8 From: "Segal, Alan S." To: "Frank da Cruz" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 May 2005 01:17:21.0722 (UTC) FILETIME=[AAB6D1A0:01C56190] X-Spam-Score: 0 () X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.48 on 128.59.28.167 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by marionberry.cc.columbia.edu id j4Q1HMMQ017471 Wow!! I never expected to get a message back from you....Dr. Kermit himself!! I am honored. And, it is a small world because I have also met Lee Lidofsky....I work with his son Steve, who is a gastroenterologist and researcher in my department! Here is what I will be sending to you on Double-Sided Double-Density "IBM diskettes" formatted for the PDP-11 as RX50 media using PUTR: 1. PDP-11 Boot Diskette with RT11SJ (v. 5.04B) and KRTMIN (v. 3.62_5) 2. PDP-11 Boot Diskette with RT11XM (v. 5.05) and KRTMIN (v. 3.62_5) I have tested both diskettes on a PDP-11/23 and PDP-11/73. The minimal version of Kermit (KRTMIN) runs properly on both machines. Please let me know that they work for you, that you are able to make copies, and if I can be of any further assistance. All the best, Alan ________________________________ From: Frank da Cruz [mailto:fdc@columbia.edu] Sent: Wed 5/25/2005 10:30 AM To: Segal, Alan S. Subject: Re: Kermit for PDP-11 on RX50 Diskette for RT-11SJ/XM > To the good folks at the KERMIT Project, > > I read on your website (http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/pdp11.html) that > the Kermit project does not have any PDP-11 computers in house and that > you have never been able to make Kermit-11 available on PDP-11 format > media. I am hoping to help the Kermit project in this respect, as I can > make KRTMIN available to you on a RX50 formatted 5.25" diskette that will > boot RT-11 operating systems RT11SJ or RT11XM on a PDP-11. > That would be terrific. > Using a DOS program named PUTR (www.dbit.com/putr, freeware for hobbyists, > although the Kermit project might need a license) it is also possible to > make copies of these diskettes using any double-sided double density (but > not high density) 5.25" diskettes, which are still widely available. Using > the PUTR program, these DSDD 5.25" diskettes can be formatted as an > RX50/RT11 diskette, which can then be used as a boot floppy on a real > PDP-11. The diskette will boot either RT11SJ or RT11XM, and KRTMIN can be > run from the RT-11 . prompt. > That's good to know. The only PC I still have with 5.25" diskettes is a PC/AT; I believe one of them is 360K (DD). I haven't turned it on in a few years! > I would like to send you two diskettes (one RT11SJ and one RT11XM) so that > you would have some native PDP-11 media that will boot these RT-11 > operating systems and include the 3 Kermit-11 files needed to run KRTMIN > (KRTMIN.INI, KRTMIN.HLP, and KRTMIN.SAV). I have tested these on two > PDP-11 (an 11/23 and an 11/73, and they both work perfectly). > > Please let me know where I should send the diskettes, and if you require > any other information. Below I have included the method for using PUTR to > make more RX50 diskettes that will boot RT11SJ or RT11XM and run KRTMIN. > Address below. > Thank you for keeping the Kermit Project going all these years. > Thanks for your generous offer! My first real computing job was in a lab that had PDP-11s. I used them for about 10 years, they were lovable, fun, and useful, compared to today's consumer-oriented products. You probably saw my story here (towards the bottom): http://www.columbia.edu/acis/history/pdp11.html > Alan Segal, M.D. > Associate Professor > Department of Medicine (Nephrology) > Department of Pharmacology > Department of Molecular Physiology & Biophysics Thanks again. - Frank Frank da Cruz The Kermit Project Columbia University 612 West 115th Street New York NY 10025-7799 USA Email: fdc@columbia.edu Voice: +1 212 854-3508 Fax: +1 212 662-6442 http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ 1-Jun-2005 16:19:51-GMT,2508;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from sesame.cc.columbia.edu (sesame.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.56]) by serrano.cc.columbia.edu (8.13.0/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51GJoE8015919 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 12:19:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sesame.cc.columbia.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sesame.cc.columbia.edu (8.13.0/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51GJoUX027314; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 12:19:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from fdc@localhost) by sesame.cc.columbia.edu (8.13.0/8.12.8/Submit) id j51GJoCa027313; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 12:19:50 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 12:19:50 EDT From: Frank da Cruz To: "Segal, Alan S." Subject: RE: Kermit for PDP-11 on RX50 Diskette for RT-11SJ/XM In-Reply-To: <09EB7E23AD8B9A4BADF6B04006F1D2DADB62FA@MED05.med.uvm> Message-ID: X-No-Spam-Score: Local X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.48 on 128.59.29.6 > Wow!! I never expected to get a message back from you....Dr. Kermit > himself!! I am honored. > Aw pshaw. > And, it is a small world because I have also met Lee Lidofsky....I work > with his son Steve, who is a gastroenterologist and researcher in my > department! > No kidding, I remember when he was kid. Also in the small world dept, I have spent a fair amount of time in Burlington, my old college roommate used to live there (in the top of Abernethy's, with all the turrets!), and worked at the hospital a few blocks away, I forget its name. Now he lives in Starksboro. > Here is what I will be sending to you on Double-Sided Double-Density "IBM > diskettes" formatted for the PDP-11 as RX50 media using PUTR: > > 1. PDP-11 Boot Diskette with RT11SJ (v. 5.04B) and KRTMIN (v. 3.62_5) > > 2. PDP-11 Boot Diskette with RT11XM (v. 5.05) and KRTMIN (v. 3.62_5) > > I have tested both diskettes on a PDP-11/23 and PDP-11/73. The minimal > version of Kermit (KRTMIN) runs properly on both machines. > > Please let me know that they work for you, that you are able to make > copies, and if I can be of any further assistance. > Well, I received them just now, but I don't have any PCs handy for making copies; I'd have to dig them out of storage. Although I do have a working Rainbow, could I use that? Thanks for sending the disks, they might end up doing some real good some day, in the sense of saving lives or somesuch, since I know that PDP-11s are still in use with medical equipment here and there, although the details escape me at the moment. - Frank 30-Dec-2004 17:29:04-GMT,3947;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from dses2.dhs.gov (dses2.dhs.gov [152.121.181.35]) by tepin.cc.columbia.edu (8.13.0/8.13.0) with ESMTP id iBUHSmsa018316 for ; Thu, 30 Dec 2004 12:29:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from dhsmail1.dhs.gov by dses2.dhs.gov for fdc@columbia.edu; Thu, 30 Dec 2004 12:28:27 -0500 Received: from unknown(161.214.73.10) by dhsmail1.dhs.gov via csmap id 3728ada8_5a88_11d9_8acc_0002b3a82863_14876; Thu, 30 Dec 2004 17:28:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mwexm05.fema.net with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Thu, 30 Dec 2004 12:29:31 -0500 Message-Id: <1F1B5248C592D211A5B20008C7A4F12D18356969@mwexm02.fema.net> From: "Anderson, Terri" To: "'Frank da Cruz'" Subject: RE: PDP Keyboard Lock Issue Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 12:25:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0 () X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.48 on 128.59.59.143 Mr. da Cruz, Thank you very much for the information you provided regarding the PDP-11 keyboard lock issue. Our electronic technician (Steve) disconnected the cables & connectors for the PDP and gave them a thorough cleaning & removed a fair amount of dust from the unit (imagine that...). Once all cables were back in place, the keyboard unlocked and the system became fully operational again. Your suggestions were most helpful and we appreciate your prompt reply. Terri H. Anderson FEMA MWEOC terri.anderson@dhs.gov -----Original Message----- From: Frank da Cruz [mailto:fdc@columbia.edu] Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 3:57 PM To: Anderson, Terri Cc: Blankinship, Robert Subject: Re: PDP Keyboard Lock Issue > We are running a vintage PDP-11 with a VT100. Upon powering up the > system, the keyboard lock indicator is ON, and we are unable to unlock the > keyboard. We have the tech manual for the PDP-11, but nothing on the > keyboard. We obtained your name from the site below while researching the > problem. > > http://www.columbia.edu/acis/history/vt100.html > > We would appreciate any assistance you can provide that may help us unlock > the keyboard. > > Thank you in advance. > The KBD LOCKED light indicates: 1. Characters are typed faster than the terminal can transmit them (probably not what's happening in this case); or: 2. Terminal is in half-duplex mode and receiving characters (this can only happen with VT101 and above, so if you have a real VT100 then this is not it either); or: 3. A print operation is in progress while the terminal is offline; or: 4. Terminal not connected to computer correctly (some required signals are missing). If this same terminal has been plugged in to the same computer for a long time, then this could be the explanation only if "something happened", like the cable wiggled loose or a wire or solder connection broke within the cable or connector, etc. 5. A startup self-test is in progress, and it's not completing successfully. Maybe the terminal is just plain dead. My last VT100 died at least 10 years ago. Try turning the terminal off, letting it rest a while, and turning it back on. Try wiggling the cables, reseating the connectors, etc. If none of that helps, I'm sure you could replace the terminal with a modern PC running emulation software, such as our own Kermit 95: http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/k95.html provided you have an RS-232 (not current loop) connection between the terminal and the PDP-11. If all else fails, I'm sure you can find another VT100 on E-Bay or something. > Terri H. Anderson > FEMA Mount Weather Emergency Operations Center > 540-542-3491 > terri.anderson@dhs.gov Frank da Cruz The Kermit Project Columbia University 612 West 115th Street New York NY 10025-7799 USA Email: fdc@columbia.edu Voice: +1 212 854-3508 Fax: +1 212 662-6442 http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ 19-Dec-2006 17:17:16-GMT,4910;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from liverwurst.cc.columbia.edu ([unix socket]) by liverwurst.cc.columbia.edu (Cyrus v2.3-alpha) with LMTPA; Tue, 19 Dec 2006 12:17:25 -0500 X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.3 Received: from longan.cc.columbia.edu (longan.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.28.165]) by liverwurst.cc.columbia.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kBJHHOQP025591 for ; Tue, 19 Dec 2006 12:17:24 -0500 Received: from smtp108.sbc.mail.re2.yahoo.com (smtp108.sbc.mail.re2.yahoo.com [68.142.229.97]) by longan.cc.columbia.edu (8.13.7/8.13.6) with SMTP id kBJHHJiB023705 for ; Tue, 19 Dec 2006 12:17:23 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 57100 invoked from network); 19 Dec 2006 17:17:19 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=snet.net; h=Received:X-YMail-OSG:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MIMEOLE:X-Antivirus:X-Antivirus-Status; b=ZZFQFVCcZY2aSQcTDdgjzmft+8dNLNQf1DG5eqLi4QYdiC2WDi/07J/APU9c2EQap6v8XAn4U2U0nXbLm5+YxWyJJS63AFJepGxEDSagKeDSByEKLjuoG5ScSamP915T6zGZksbr5F8+8YSHpKaSnHRK79NIhUbaydx3detbOvI= ; Received: from unknown (HELO KDESK) (smith.fcs@snet.net@72.81.41.157 with login) by smtp108.sbc.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Dec 2006 17:17:18 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: p.l4oYAVM1lcM_rsOJHgW9LZX_LiNCAN7xjE5Yu4xFTQOD6K9.F8P474zPjWdfiJmoZT0n8ZPhoQPEKruQrNEDoMv1V5IokrbK4g2w3PpN2LJsQ28IFZVMg60wNldhqV__SEHjuvOorcSXKRo2mBrWfgAC2RO.Alf7o- Message-ID: <009b01c72391$88b0b2a0$640fa8c0@KDESK> From: "Kelvin Smith" To: References: Subject: Re: K95 survey Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 12:17:16 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0660-0, 12/19/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 0 () X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.48 on 128.59.28.165 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank da Cruz" To: "Kelvin Smith" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 11:45 AM Subject: Re: K95 survey > We'll do it if we get permission to spend the money. I have not yet found > the magic words to get our new management to understand that such things > are good investments. Testimony from paying customers or potential > large licensees is the only thing they might understand. If you'd like to > explain why this feature is important to you, I can use that to help. > Something like "We distribute Kermit 95 to medical secretaries all over > the state for them to upload insurance claims to Medicare, and they are > not able to deal with 'escape back to the prompt, give a Send command, > return to the terminal screen'." I can't make such a claim. Just two guys in my office using it, and we're both smart enough to figure out what to do. It would just be a convenience, particularly being able to select multiple (but not all) files from a directory. > That's the one from our kermit/test/pdp11 directory? I think that's the > first feedback I've had about it in 10 years. > I used to run a RSTS system here but that was over 30 years ago. Wow, > how'd that happen? You have a real DEC PDP-11? My company's business is providing lease accounting services to other companies. The report calculations & generation software was written for RSTS in the late 1970s and early 1980s. There's over 400,000 lines of code, so rewriting it all for another platform has been a project I've avoided. Actually, I'm currently working on a Visual Basic .NET version of the basics of the system, with the thought that if there's a decent market response, I'll eventually expand that version to do the whole show, but it'll take time. In the meantime, we're still running RSTS, though in 2000 we pulled the plugs on the PDP-11s and moved everything to an emulator that runs on a PC. Since PDP-11s haven't been taking advantage of Moore's Law lately, by switching to the emulator on the PC we were able to speed up the system literally by a factor of 10, even when 600 MHz was state of the art. Earlier this year we moved to a 2.4 GHz CPU, so the speed jumped by a factor of 4 again. Using PCs also means a lot less power consumption and heat generation. Time was when we provided printout reports to all of our clients. Now they get most everything emailed, so Kermit is vital to get the reports transferred from RSTS to the PC to email (and to upload clients' updates). Thanks for your efforts. Kelvin Smith Financial Computer Systems, Inc. 20-Dec-2006 14:10:15-GMT,3586;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from liverwurst.cc.columbia.edu ([unix socket]) by liverwurst.cc.columbia.edu (Cyrus v2.3-alpha) with LMTPA; Wed, 20 Dec 2006 09:11:04 -0500 X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.3 Received: from brinza.cc.columbia.edu (brinza.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.29.8]) by liverwurst.cc.columbia.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kBKEAxtG019488 for ; Wed, 20 Dec 2006 09:10:59 -0500 Received: from sesame.cc.columbia.edu (sesame.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.56]) by brinza.cc.columbia.edu (8.13.7/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kBKEAwSg024699 for ; Wed, 20 Dec 2006 09:10:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from sesame.cc.columbia.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sesame.cc.columbia.edu (8.13.7/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kBKEAoFS009003; Wed, 20 Dec 2006 09:10:50 -0500 (EST) Received: (from fdc@localhost) by sesame.cc.columbia.edu (8.13.7/8.12.8/Submit) id kBKEAFCn008871; Wed, 20 Dec 2006 09:10:15 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 9:10:15 EST From: Frank da Cruz To: "Kelvin Smith" Cc: Billy Youdelman , John Santos , Johnny Billquist , Tim Shoppa Subject: Re: K95 survey In-Reply-To: <011701c723ca$7c385120$640fa8c0@KDESK> Message-ID: X-No-Spam-Score: Local X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.48 on 128.59.29.8 [For those in the cc list, this is in reference to the discovery by Kevin Smith -- whose business runs on simulated PDP-11s with RSTS, and who therefore makes heavy use of Kermit-11 -- that K11 3.60 can not send text lines longer than 192 bytes, and that K11 4.64 has a limit of 512...] > I found the maximum line length error doesn't totally go away with the > newest edition of Kermit for RSTS. The boundary is now 512 characters, not > the 192 that it was previously, but Kermit still can't handle an > unlimited-length line in ASCII mode. Perhaps that's understandable (who > would want to read a line 500+ characters long?), but my situation is that > I'm transferring some text files for conversion into Excel spreadsheets, and > I have to use binary mode transfers for those, but binary mode isn't good > for actual text files, because you end up with a bunch of nulls at the end > of the file. And since Notepad allows one to create text files with word > wrap on display, a 500+character text line isn't unreasonable in a PC > environment. > The problem is evidently that the Kermit-11 file reader is record-oriented, which is probably a reflection of the underlying file system. In Unix, Windows, DOS, etc, we can treat a file as an undifferentiated stream of bytes and do our own buffering. In VMS, RSX, etc, one must use RMS to get structured objects out of files. I don't recall RSTS being that way when I knew it (circa V6), but I think in later versions it inherited a lot of that. So I suspect Kermit-11 is using RMS or something like it to read records, which in the case of text files are "lines". In VMS we do the same thing in C-Kermit, but there we have the luxury of making Kermit's buffer the same size as the maximum record record length that a file can have (32K as I recall). But since Kermit-11 is a 16-bit application, and does a lot of stuff, it's probably already on the edge of the limitations of the architecture. But I don't really know. I'll cc this to some other people who would know better (in hopes that they still are at their addresses from a few years ago). - Frank